Wild vs Caught - mainly about altums and angels

Discussion in 'Other Cichlids' started by Dirk B, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    Re: Some of my wilds

    Hi Peter,

    My German friend certainly does sell them in SA. If you are interested in obtaining some in the Western Cape you must please contact me urgently as I may be able to arrange to obtain some in combination with my visits to Pretoria and Johannesburg in the next two weeks.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  2. shihr
    Offline

    shihr Administrator Staff Member

    • Super Admin
    23%
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,863
    Likes Received:
    1,786
    Trophy Points:
    223
    Location:
    Edenvale
    Re: Some of my wilds

    YES! thats what they have at petmasters :p they were nice.. but their stripes and colours weren so striking.. they said that they just arived so the fish were spooked..

    checking the website now..
     
  3. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    Re: Some of my wilds

    If they are spooked then they certainly are paler. When they grow out the dark colours do become darker and if you keep them in a planted tank they also colour up more.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  4. shihr
    Offline

    shihr Administrator Staff Member

    • Super Admin
    23%
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,863
    Likes Received:
    1,786
    Trophy Points:
    223
    Location:
    Edenvale
    Re: Some of my wilds

    ya, went to that site.. on one of the tanks, its sad about that bg that they used on that one tank.. what a shame.. but ya, they look very high maintenance.. those tanks are crystal clear!!!!
     
  5. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    Hi Everyone,

    The differences by which you can distinguish altum and scalare angels are not by the stripes, but the most important distinguishing feature is in the nose, altums have that notch and scalare do not (note how some of the paradox fishes have the notch and others do not! The second important feature is the edge of the tail fin. If it is fully stretched out the fin of scalare is concave, in other words bent away from the head of the fish and in alltums it is convex, bent in the direction of the head. Have a look at the pics and you will see this. The paradox fishes are again almost intermediate with regard to this tail edge.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  6. Luis Embalo
    Offline

    Luis Embalo Valued Contributor

    • APSA Member
    23%
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    Messages:
    5,342
    Likes Received:
    1,184
    Trophy Points:
    223
    Location:
    Elsies River - Cape Town
    See the nose here:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Heiko Bleher
    Offline

    Heiko Bleher Noob

    • APSA Member
    55%
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Hi,

    I just saw this thread, my name is Heiko Bleher and I just wanted to comment on the P altum topic.

    First of all Mr. Bellstedt (and many otheras well as Schmidt-Focke for nearly 30 years) have had the problem with not being able to breed them, simply because no one has bred them. Skalare.de in Germany has maybe been able to just now (in 2010) for the first time, I still must see, but all others, Linke, Segrest, all Japanese and other breeders which claim to have bred the real P. altum have bred what is well known the P. scalare from the Rio Negro (from below the waterfalls, the Cachoeira de Sao Gabriel), as above there are no angelfishes. The only other record is that of P. altum at the first tributary in the Casiquiare, not futher down and nowhere near waterfalls. And it is exactly this geologic barrier, that has separated those two for possibly 1.2 to 12 million years.

    They all have bred the fish which is on your reply #6, the second picture from the top. This is a very nice angelfish, but not the majestic and unique P. altum. The real altum is such a unique fish and immediatey to be recognized, as everything is different from all others.

    In my latest publiaction I showed not only why no one has bred them, but also the two main populations living in two complete different drainages of the upper Orinoco basin, I also showed their differences in details. This ones you have here on #11 is the Inirida basin population.

    Depending on the population is the difference in water parametres and morphology. I can tell you for instance that in the Atabapo they spawn on rocks in 1-2 m of depth with temperatures above 31 °C (even up to 32 °C, pH 3.7 and conductivity at 9 µS/cm.

    All the best to all of you, from the fisrt live P. altum collector (and a few thousand more sepcies in the hobby today),

    always
    Heiko Bleher
    www.aquapress-bleher.com
     
  8. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    Hi Heiko,

    Welcome to the APSA forum and thank you very much for your reply, we appreciate it that you can add some of your experience from your many, many fish collecting expeditions around to the world, and particularly from South America.

    Your comments about the P altum are very interesting and I would urge members of this forum to read your latest publication. I have also advised members to read your book on discus to obtain a better idea of the conditions that these fishes live in in nature as this make keeping them much easier.

    It is very interesting that you mention that the true altums breed under such a high temperature, I was always under the impression that they preferred slightly cooler water (27 C) in comparison to discus.

    Keep us informed of your travels and discoveries, they would always be welcome on this forum.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  9. Heiko Bleher
    Offline

    Heiko Bleher Noob

    • APSA Member
    55%
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Hi Dirk,
    sorry to get back on this so late, but I am working almost around the clock for the last 2 month to get hopefully in the next 10 days finally volume 2 of Bleher's Discus to be printed. I stayed away from almost every forum.
    Anyhow I am writing this very moment about South Africa, Cape Agulhas, etc. and the few breeders, you are in it (at least by name and some of your work and a couple of Discus photos), Fanie Jordaan , etc. And I just looked into the latest news you guys have... (But not much on SA Discus...).
    I also tried to look up the name of a guy who came to visit me in Germany about 2 decades ago (when I still had Aquarium Rio and sold Eduard's Discus as well, still). He came to vist me the moment I had another terrible malaria attack, he was a discus lover and breeder, and I DI not find his name anymore ...

    Anyhow, thanks for the nice comments. Yes P. altum from the Atabapo really spawn at this temperature during the lower water season, and at the low conductivity and pH.

    B.t.w. those photos shown by Gohstsword are very nice P. altum, probably from Atabapo.

    Take care you all,

    always
    Heiko Bleher
    www.aquapress-bleher.com

     
  10. Andre
    Offline

    Andre Green fingers

    • APSA Member
    37%
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,201
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Cape Town
    Hi Heiko

    When will volume 2 of Bleher's Discus be available? And where would be the best place for us in South Africa to find it?

    Kind Regards

    Andre
     
  11. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    Hi Heiko,

    The person who came to see you about 2 decades ago could have been Sven van Straten from Port ELizabeth. He has sold all his discus at least 15 years ago, so he is no longer keeping discus.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  12. Heiko Bleher
    Offline

    Heiko Bleher Noob

    • APSA Member
    55%
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Hi Dirk,

    that is really very kind of you, thank you so much. Sven was (probably like) a real gentleman. And I am sorry he stopped. It seems that quite a few din your country have stopped with Discus, or is it just my impression?
    I wonder why he discontinued as it had been so enthusiastic about them.

    Anyhow, sure thank yo and hopw to see you some time. I will definitely come back.

    Always
    Heiko
    www.aquapress-bleher.com
     
  13. Heiko Bleher
    Offline

    Heiko Bleher Noob

    • APSA Member
    55%
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Hi Andre,

    We will start printing February 15th and the printer said should be ready on the 28th, but I have my doubts, because we printing in 5 different languages and it must be binded, and the strap (red) has to be placed by hand...
    Anyhow for sure in march. And I have I think 4 double pages on South Africa...

    I have no distributor in SA, we always looked and at the end no one wanted. We have several bookshops, they order it, but only if they have a request, they do not put on the shelf, maybe to expensive...Although no one said it before.

    You can oder from or website, we ship daily around the world and never ever had single problem. It works very well.

    Thanks and best regards

    Heiko Bleher
    www.aquapress-bleher.com
     

Share This Page