Water Changes

Discussion in 'Discus' started by Mastermamo, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. Mastermamo
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    Mastermamo Algae harvester

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    Hello guys

    Thought I would share this with everyone.

    I have tried an experiment with WC's and it works. Most people pre heat new water before adding to the main tank and on 2 occasions I added water that was aged but very cold because I didnt have time to heat it. Funnily enough this didnt seem to affect the fish. So I continued doing this and I've done this almost 20 times now with no adverse effects on the fish. I then did a 100% WC on one of my hospital tanks with 6 sick fish in. When I checked the temp it was 22 degrees which is pretty cold. Next morning the fish were all doing great.
    IMHO I honestly do not feel the new water needs to be preheated on small WC's (20-30%) in a big tank and in smaller tanks there's no need for it at all. Naturally in a bigger tank if u r doing a big WC it's going to take longer for the temp to reach 28-29 degrees so its best to add preheated water.

    Just more practical advice from things I have experienced first hand

    Hope this helps.

    M
     
  2. Greystoke
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    Greystoke Specialist

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  3. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    I wonder how many guys run a tank at 28-29 ...

    Maybe the Discus lovers ... from what I can remember 28-29 is a bit high for most planted tanks. Unless you are breeding or have speciality fish you can probably get away with anything from 22 - 25 some as low as 18.

    High temps mean less O2, faster metabolism, more feeding required that leads to more waste so more WC .. - think I have that right.

    But yes I run water straight from the cold tap via a filter into all my tanks - if the tap water is cold I tend to do smaller a WC.

    Later Ferdie
     
  4. Sir Bob Roberts
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    Sir Bob Roberts Green fingers

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    i stopped heating my wc water about a year ago, no issues, thou it is only about 30%.
    if you watch the temp in the tank,it doesnt change, maybe ever slightly that it doesnt matter, i ad 1 liter at a time.
     
  5. Mastermamo
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    Mastermamo Algae harvester

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    I don't run a planted tank and generally my temp sits between 27-29 on the grow out tank and 27 on adult tank. My QT and hospital tank is 29-30 to help fight infection
     
  6. Mastermamo
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    Mastermamo Algae harvester

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    Awesome. Good to hear I'm not the only one doing it
     
  7. PsyXe
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    PsyXe Green fingers

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    I only heat my water for the discus tank. For all of the others I figure it doesn't make that much of a difference.
     
  8. Mastermamo
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    Mastermamo Algae harvester

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    Read my first comment. It really doesn't make a difference to the discus IMHO
     
  9. DaChicken
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    DaChicken Green fingers

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    Thanx for the info Mastermamo...

    I also never did preheat with my water changes....

    my system for WC is the following:

    From taop it goes straight through a carbon filter, then n micron filter... after that is goes through a resin bed (DOWEX HCR resin) and then into my tank...

    I have a 430L tank... for 50% WC it takes me approx. 3 hours to refill...
     
  10. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Mohammed,

    My time is too limited at the moment to reply to most messages, but if I see a thread that can cause major problems to inexperienced discus keepers, then I will reply.

    Mo, you were bloody lucky not to loose all of your discus to swim bladder problems by doing this temperature drop during your water change in the way that you did. You have no idea what sort of stress you exposed those poor fishes to. If you keep discus at 29-30 C and you do a water change and drop the temperature even one degree below 22C they will deflate their swimbladders and will all lie on their sides and many will not recover again. If you do this now for the second time this week, I am sure you will be knocking on the door of this forum for advice about fishes that are trying to swim up from the bottom all the time, or have a bulge on the side of the body and are trying to swim down. This would be the result of infection of the sphincter muscle of the swimbladder, the one that controls how inflated or deflated it is.

    Please don't do your experiments and then post this as general advice, this can lead persons that are not experienced in keeping discus to loosing their fishes. Swimbladder problems are very difficult to treat in any fishes including discus, so please don't advise this for discus. For other fishes, as Greystoke indicates, this may be fine, but categorically not for discus. These are sensitive fishes that come from the Amazon where sudden drops in temperature as you are causing because of your water changes, just simply do not occur.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  11. Mastermamo
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    Mastermamo Algae harvester

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    Hi Dirk

    Thank you for clearing this up for me. I appreciate you taking time to do this. Now that I understand more clearly the dangers inherent in drastic temp changes I will ensure that I never go below 22degrees.

    M
     
  12. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Mohammed,

    You should not only not go below 22 C, but you should not go down more than 2 degrees C when you do a water change. Any drop that is greater than that exposes your fish to swimbladder problems. 22 C is an absolute no-no with discus.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  13. Mastermamo
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    Mastermamo Algae harvester

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    I shall indeed take this under consideration and ensure my new water is closely matched in temp to the tank water Dirk. Once again I thank you for your invaluable advice and look forward to talking to you in the course of the week inco a food order.

    M
     
  14. Trev Pleco
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    Trev Pleco Algae destroyer

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    Yeah saw this post earlier and wanted to say something before innocent folk started loosing fishies and not just discus, but you beat me to it. Naturally there are so many variables with water changes and going in cold.. % of w/c, speed of top up, type of fish and so on. This time of year with still being in the cold season its precarious.. so rather err on caution, why risk it ! Some fish fish like say cardinals, discus and inverts are far more sensitive to water change temp drops than other fish. Sure, utilising cooler water as a means to induce spawning is common in discus, Dirk's fish house is a good example of this, however sudden temp drops of more than say two to three degrees can be fatal, as many of us have found out.

    Play safe rather than be sorry ! :police:
     
  15. Mastermamo
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    Mastermamo Algae harvester

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    Agreed
     
  16. Trev Pleco
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    Trev Pleco Algae destroyer

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    that's a first ;D
     
  17. Mastermamo
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    Mastermamo Algae harvester

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    I was agreeing with the Prof and accidentally typed in your your comment box. Ooops lol
     
  18. Kryo
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    Kryo Green fingers

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    Just saw this thread now. Have to firmly agree with Prof and Trevor. The risk for any fish not only discus is too high. How many have had dropsy and swim bladder problems and blamed it on the LFS?

    As a matter of interest in winter I have two 300w heaters that heat the WC barrel that sits outside the window near to where the tank is. It gets full sun all day as it is North facing and although the winter sun does heat the barrel to certain point its just not enough for my liking. I often toss a bucket of hot water in the barrel on top of the already heated water and circulate it for 30mins just for my own peace of mind. I have a thermometer on a string that I use to measure the temp at the bottom, centre and top of the barrel before water changes.

    My Discus tank temp is set to 28-29degrees. My water change water temp is never less that 26 degrees (on a frosty winters day!).

    In summer I get a bit of a reprieve with the two heaters because here in JHB with our hot summers the WC barrel is never less that 26-28degrees (remember I said it is in full sun 24/7!)

    I did a water change today actually. No heater and it was 28 degrees in the barrel from top to bottom! Bonus!
     
  19. Mastermamo
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    Mastermamo Algae harvester

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    Bought a couple of Eheim 300's today and will most definitely not make this mistake again

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2014
  20. Marius Swart
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    Marius Swart Algae harvester

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    I do wc like this but drip it in, so 10% takes me like 20-30min , I believe this way on the type of fish I have it wont harm them, just adding the new water drip by drip
     

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