Suitability of Ramarezi's in a community tank

Discussion in 'Other Cichlids' started by Risen, Jun 28, 2008.

  1. d3tained
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    d3tained Algae harvester

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    When I was still staying in CPT I got my rams from Panorama.Still small rams.In the end they ended up breeding and then after a while again...fry didnt survive as it was a community tank.They then promptly died together a few weeks after.Weird...I think best is to get wild caught rams and know your stuff.
     
  2. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    The problem is that wild-caught rams are even more sensitive, so this is not the solution. They need spotlessly clean tanks, very acid water and high quality foods to survive. I bred mine for a while in my discus systems, where they raised their fry themselves amongst the big discus! Due to space restrictions I passed all of mine on the Gerald Tutt later on though.

    Looks like I should look into breeding these myself again if I look at the demand........

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  3. Laure
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    Laure Algae harvester

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    I think there is a demand. But the fact that you can't have too many per tank is holding back a lot of people. You can basically keep 2 pair or 2 in your discus tank as they require similar care. Me, however, would love to keep a dwarf cichlid planted tank. That is a whole lot of them, all different kinds, in a single tank. Add a school of cardinals and it might look even just as good as a discus tank. (I know I'm gonna get abuse for that alst statement ;D) But alas, due to their territorial behavious, this is not possible. I don't want just 1 or 2 pairs in a community tank, because they require differnt care as to most community fish. Also, more active fish will outcompete them for food.
     
  4. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    Nonsense... Rams are fantastic fish to keep in a large group. I've had a group of 8 in a 300l tank. Unfortunately Velvet took 4 of them. Including the 2 females. I'm now left with 4 males and they spar with eachother, but they live very happily together.
     
  5. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Laure and Slagter,

    All dwarf cichlids are territorial and when they are adult (note adult) they cannot be kept together in large numbers. The males will constantly fight for territories until one or two, depending on space, win and establish a territory, and then they will either murder or stress out the rest until they die. When keeping dwarfs one should arrange the tank so that there are territories with pots for spawning and rocks to separate the territories. One should keep one or two pairs depending on the size of the tank. When I kept mine for breeding I kept them in smaller tanks in which I keep only one pair and smaller fish as dither fish.

    What one should try to enjoy about dwarf cichlids is their behaviour especially their breeding behaviour which is really attractive. In comparison to large cichlids they do not rearrange your tank all the time, and they do not eat the plants or the companion fishes.

    Slagter, when I kept my rams together with my discus, I kept them in schools but as soon as a pair established itself in a tank and they spawned, war broke out and once they have young they will smash any other rams that are in close vicinity, so keeping rams in schools actually also does not work.

    BTW Laure, your comment about how attractive a tank with dwarfs can look in comparison to a discus tank should not draw any abuse at all, because I fully agree that a well kept smaller tank with a school of cardinals and some pencils with a pair or two of dwarf cichlids will look stunning and will give discus a good go. Also note the combination that I recommend, then you will not have problems with competition for food.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  6. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    I have 4 males in my main tank now. Sure they are territorial and the do squabble, but they are yet to kill each other. And they are adult size. They have been together since December. But In general, I do agree with your comments. I would not keep more than 1 male Apistogramma species together under any circumstances as adults.
     
  7. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    If you were to add a female and they were to spawn, war would break out, about that I have no doubt.

    However, as you say they spar but do not damage each other so they are nice to observe in a tank.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  8. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    I'm looking for females, but of the Dutch Green Variety. All my males are Dutch Greens. If I find any, They would be separated for breeding.
     
  9. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    The so-called "German" and "Dutch" varieties are all the same. They are actually all the same species and the same strain. It is just that the rams from the east have been so poorly selected that they now looked smaller, or more slender, and if you really want me to do a back flip, then show me some "bubble" rams. How anyone can breed such deformed fish just beats me.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  10. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    Balloon Rams? I hate them. I don't get the fascination with deformed fish.

    I know they are the same, But I refuse to buy rams from asia. They always die on me.
     
  11. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    I would also not buy rams from the east, but what I am saying is that if you see German or Dutch rams you can safely "cross" them, if you can call it that.

    What I want to warn you about is that "Dutch" rams are now also coming from the East as a matter of fact....... you may even have bought some of these. They do seem to be better than the previous rubbish from the East though.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  12. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    As far as I know, they are not from the east. When they were shipped, they were pretty close to adult sizes. I highly doubt they are from the east, according to the guys who brought them in, they are from Holland.

    I've been looking for any Female rams from a reputable supplier and haven't found any as of yet... I'll keep looking though.
     
  13. philfarm
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    philfarm Algae harvester

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    Dirk do you agree? I was thinking of mixing 2pair of cockatoo's with 2pair of checkerboards, this would be my dream mix of fish but would the the two species males co-inhabit the same territorys or would all hell break loose?
     
  14. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    2 different species would be fine. IMO. But 2 males of the same species is asking for trouble.
     
  15. philfarm
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    philfarm Algae harvester

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    Oh and by the way Slagter enjoy your new babies from leaquat they are awesome looking and healthy little guys..
     
  16. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Phil and Slagter,

    Checkerboard cichlids are actually quite different to most other dwarf cichlids as they hide a lot more than other dwarfs and they actually also need a lot more plant cover, so you could keep 2 pairs of cockatoos with two pairs of checkerboards. However, a warning about checkerboards, they are actually quite difficult to keep, need very soft water, and excellent filtration, even better than for most dwarfs.

    You can keep more than one male of different Apisto species together, but it depends very much on which species you want to keep. Some are a lot more aggro than others and then cannot be combined. You can also keep more than one male of the same species together, but then you need enough space. This "space" actually means how much surface area is there in your tank. SO you can have a shallow broad tank in which you can keep two males, but you cannot have a short deep tank for two males as there is just not enough floor space for two territories in such a tank.

    Which babies from Liaquat are you guys referring to?

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  17. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    The Sunburst Apistogramma Cacatoides. I'm getting 2 pairs today. Among other fish.
     
  18. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Aha, sounds nice, I suppose they are the ones that have or orange tails?

    Let us see some pics once they have settled in.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  19. philfarm
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    philfarm Algae harvester

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    Tricky little buggers to get a pic of, patience is not one of their stronger qualities! these are terrible photos but they give you an idea, I just love the character of these fish!


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2014
  20. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    They are tiny though. MUCH smaller than my bigger Double Red male.
     

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