smallfry has small fry!!!

Discussion in 'Discus' started by smallfry, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. Rowland
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    Rowland Algae harvester

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    Great stuff. Look forward to the developments here. Is this what they would call hybrid vigour Dirk?
     
  2. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    AAAAAHHHHH!! So cool!! Great pics dude!!

    Looks like mine are doing the dance again as well. Noticed them this morning. Let's hope they don't eat them this time!!
     
  3. Pikkie
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    Pikkie Algae harvester

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    Wow very cool pic! Can't wait to see how they develop ;)
     
  4. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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    Thanx guys. Couldn't be more proud of them myself! ;D

    Was wondering about the genetics involved? Anyone want to voice an opinion on what to expect once these babies are fully grown? I would imagine some like father, some like mother and some mixed?
     
  5. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Smallfry,

    I have been holding back on making a comment about the genetics because it worries me, but now you have asked specifically about it, so I will answer.

    Without wanting to hurt your feelings, this cross is going to lead to dilution of the characteristics of the parents. You have the contrast of completely blue turquoise versus the wild type intermittent turquoise stripes. The offspring will show turquoise stripes but many more than the father. The father has normal vertical stripes the mother is snakeskin. It depends on whether the mother has received this from both her parents, but she in all likelihood has, so there will be some snakeskin offspring and some normal offspring. The male has this striking reddish brown and unfortunately the offspring will have this very diluted, because the original base color of the female was not as red/brown. However, you must see what the offspring look like and take it from there.

    And no Rowland, hybrid vigor would really only apply if both parents were an inbred strain and the male should not be inbred coming from the wild. The challenge when trying to get wild-caught discus to breed is to get the females to spawn, the males will spawn much more easily as we see in this case.

    Some advice from my side would be to not switch off the lights in the room in which the aquarium is situated so that the parents can look after the babies during the night. Also, you need to start feeding baby bs aggressively on day 6 so you had better get some bs hatched soon.

    Otherwise all is looking good, perhaps you can get to breeding some pure discus next time around, but you are gaining valuable experience here.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  6. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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    Thank you for the reply and advice.

    As far as i know only the grandfather on the mother's side was snakeskin. The mother has some very faint snakeskin markings on her head only.

    Back to an issue i raised a coulple of months ago. Cyclops. They are still very much precent in the tank. The smaller tetras i had use to love eating them. Close observation of the Rummie Nose babies has also showed that the cyclops are their preferred food. If they cach a white worm (also plenty in tank) they immediately spit it out and go on to find a Cyclops.

    I was hoping that the discus fry would also enjoy eating the cyclops. (I know your feelings on this prof Dirk!) I would like to experiment with these fry and see what happens.The cyclops are so small that you can only realy see the bigger females with the eggs in their tails. So far i have not been able to detect any harm done to the fry by the cyclops. At the moment the fry are sticking so close to their parents though that its hard to tell if they are feeding on any thing else.

    It is day 4 now and all is still well with fry and parents. Just amazed at how fast they grow. From photos i can count about 70 fry. Out of them all there is about 4 that does not seem to grow at all. They still swim and feed though.
     
  7. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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    [​IMG]
    Day 5

    [​IMG]
    Day 6
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2014
  8. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Smallfry,

    Looking very nice and nice pics. They are asking for baby bs now, I can see....

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  9. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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    It is day 7 now. Was fasinating to witness these amazing little fish's rapid development during their first week since free swimming on Monday31/08/2009. From now on I will try and post a weekly pickture.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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  11. Ryan
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    Ryan Green fingers

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    Hey smallfry

    They're really looking good.

    P.S. I just fixed up some of your IMG tags again, you had a few extra ones :p
     
  12. Gareth26
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    Gareth26 Noob

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    Great Pics Man the Dicus look Awesome and so do the fry :)
     
  13. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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    Thanx Ryan but if you check the posts there is two sets of duplicates. Could you pls erase the extra sets. Much appreciated.

    Its day 8 and the youngsters spontaniously started to hunt down the Cyclops thats hiding in the algae and moss growing on the back glass. For this very purpose i have never wiped the back glass clean. [im[​IMG][im[​IMG]g][/img]g][/img]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2014
  14. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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  15. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Small-fry,

    Cyclops and the algae do not nearly have the nutritive value of brine shrimps and the babies need that at the moment, so please try to get some and feed them. If you do not the fry will fall behind in growth and then they start dying off one by one, just some advice from someone that has raised hundreds of discus fry by now.....

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  16. LIAQUAT
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    LIAQUAT Algae harvester

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    Good going sofar!
    I hope you raise some and ENJOY it, while learning alot along the way.

    It's interesting, but somewhat confused info posted in that link. dated almost 10years ago.

    ....anyway they are talking primarily about CYCLOP-EEZE ,trademarked by Argent Laboratories, which is an arctic decapod, and sold as such.
    They do NOT discuss typical Copepods found in tropical tanks, local water bodies or even the type sold as frozen food.

    Remember; LIVE Artemia nauplii are irresistable to young, hungry, predatory Discus fry!!! :D

    Here's something to help you compare Artemia nauplii and "CyclopEeze"

    [​IMG]
    You'll see it has a VERY good food profile. BUT it tends to float awhile, in the freeze-dried form.
    This makes it harder for young fish to actually have a go at it.

    Personally, I have used it in smaller tanks where it was easier to feed, and clean up afterwards, and in artificial raising formulae of "problem parents" with desirable characteristics .

    Then only for fish from 1-2weeks age freeswimming, weaned together with bbs and gradually other foods phased in.
     
  17. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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    Thanx to all for advise, info and replies. :)
    I sertainly do not want to take any credit away from brine shrimp and their role in feeding and raising fry.The following link makes a couple of interesting statements on the presumed nutritional value of brine shrimp and how to boost their nutritional value. It also has very positive coments under the Cyclops section. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... invert.htm

    So far I have not fed any brine shrimp to the fry. I am keeping a close eye on them and if I suspect in any way that they are lacking in growth or vigor I will give them some. I am a bit frustrated with my own inexperience since I do not have a track record of raising fry to compare these to.If I turn out to be a mass murderer you will just have to forgive me! ;)
     
  18. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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  19. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Smallfry,

    The saying is that you can take a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!

    If you are not feeding bs by now, you will be stunting the growth of the fry and the other thing that you will have to watch is that the fry do not start denuding the parents and eating away at their actual skin. You can damage the parents very considerably if you do not watch this. They will lose condition quite badly as a result, and may pick up fungal infections on their bodies. It will also force you to take the fry away from the parents sooner than you should and again this will have an influence on the growth of the fry.

    Listen to the old man.......

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  20. smallfry
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    smallfry Noob

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    Hi prof.Some horses are a bit more stubborn than others! As always your input is much appreciated.

    I notised on you photos that you seem to keep the parents with the fry for longer than 3 weeks. How long do you feel the fry should stay with parents?
     

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