Scape Liquid Carbon and vallis

Discussion in 'General Aquatic Talk' started by Puntius, Oct 12, 2016.

  1. Puntius
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    Puntius Green fingers

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    @Slagter Hi was wondering if scape liquid carbon will also melt vallis. Please advise.

    Thanks

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  2. Deadpool
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    Deadpool Algae destroyer Staff Member

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    Yes, because it has the same active ingredient (glutaraldehyde) as Excel...

    The vallis will bounce back tho as it get accustomed/resilient to the liquid carbon.

    As a point of interest, some people have been claiming with constant over dosing their tanks...their algae has been getting resilient against excel as well. Almost like the drug/anti-biotic resistant pests we getting with the imported fish from asia...being exposed to certain chemicals/drugs for an extended period of time isn't a good idea. If evolution has shown us anything...nature will always find a way...
     
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  3. Clare
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    Clare Aquascaper

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    Yes it will, mine was been struggling for months and then bounced back with some new shoots. Give it some time and be patient with it. As for algae, I have no green algae of any kind except for BBA which I need to spot-treat it to avoid it spreading. BBA seems to be the only thing that is immune to the active ingredient.
     
  4. Neville
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    Neville Green fingers

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    My experience is different. I just removed a whole bunch of vallis from my tank as it is getting too much. I dose Excel daily and have to trim vallis leaves weekly and remove encroaching plantlets every few weeks. When I can get hold if Scape, the same story.

    [​IMG]


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  5. Waltjie
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    Waltjie Green fingers

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    I'm confused. I thought Excel WILL kill BBA?
     
  6. Clare
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    Clare Aquascaper

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    That's exactly what I thought and I still have BBA after months of spot-treating it. It's even spread to my other plants too and I've had to pull some plants and throw them out when I needed to thin the tank. The BBA is stuck to the vallis, neither growing or diminishing. Not sure what I am doing wrong here but it won't go away.
     
  7. Paul
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    Paul Plant menace

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    Clare are you not using scape ? i used to have BBA but since i increased my flow to the bottom and middle zones of my tank i no longer struggle with BBA. I think lots of flow is the key against the fight of the dreaded BBA.
     
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  8. Clare
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    Clare Aquascaper

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    Sorry for the confusion, I should have stated that I did use Excel and it doesn't seem to work on the vallis. Works on the other plants. I've got BBA growing on the driftwood as well and it doesn't die, even though it's been spot treated for 15 mins neat. That was the reason why I bought Excel for problematic algae and I'm still having a problem with BBA after months of spot-treating it.

    The Scape Liquid Carbon is only long term carbon dosing for the plants in my tank, nothing else. The Excel is a treatment plan only.
     
  9. Clare
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    Clare Aquascaper

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    @Paul: LOL I think Waltjie misread my original post about BBA. What I meant is that BBA is immune to Scape Liquid Carbon, which is why I have Excel as a backup precursor to Scape Liquid Carbon for problematic algae and other nasties. Long day for me, also misreading things as well myself. :oops:
     
  10. Paul
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    Paul Plant menace

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    Increase your flow and then we can talk again lol.
     
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  11. Paul
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    Paul Plant menace

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    You know i found that out too that scape don't work as well on BBA as excel.
     
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  12. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Guys you must not get your eyes off the ball here. Both Scape Liquid Carbon and Excel are sold as a carbon supplement and that is what they should be used for. That they have the potential to control BBA is a complete side effect, so don't judge the product for its ability to control BBA, it is not sold for that and it does not claim that it can control BBA. BBA is the result of your tank management which is the problem here. Control with these spot treatments is treating the symptom and not the cause, as I always say.

    Kind regards, Dirk
     
  13. Paul
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    Paul Plant menace

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    Yes Dirk i know excel is a carbon liquid all i am saying it did help me control my BBA better than scape did but to make a long story short i increased my flow and now have zero BBA.
     
  14. Clare
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    Clare Aquascaper

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    Aye, Dirk, I am aware of of it but Excel does help with the nasties though. The other day I had some strange oily residue on my water surface. Installed my spraybar back on and bingo five minutes later, it was clear. Smelled better too. The only ingredient difference is that Excel claims to contain polycycloglutaracetal where Scape Liquid Carbon has 2.5% glutaraldehyde solution. I can find information on glutaraldehyde but I can't find any information on polycycloglutaracetal at all, yet Excel works better than Scape in managing the nasties. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
     
  15. wudze
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    wudze Aquascaper

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    I've had BBA growing on my filter outlet as well as the outlet on 2 different power heads. Flow helps, but it's not a cure all. BBA is opportunistic, get everything else in order and it won't stand a chance. Touch wood :toothy6:, I've only ever had BBA in that one tank and it only appeared twice in the 2 years that tank was running.
     
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  16. krg007
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    krg007 Noob

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    Sorry for the hijack, but can anyone let me know who/what LFS sells/carries the scape range in Cape Town? Preferably northern suburbs.
     
  17. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    Scape Liquid Carbon is a stabilized form of Gluteradahyde. It's primary function is 100% a carbon source for the plants. It is not the same compound that is in seachem excel. They are different products.

    Aquatic Warehouse in Bergvliet has the Scape Products.


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  18. Clare
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    Clare Aquascaper

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    @Slagter: interesting, indeed, it is a carbon source and I did some reading a while back, it's also a sterilising agent and preservative too. I guess that sterilising part goes out of the window when it's diluted for safe use, which makes it less effective on algae control.

    The only reason why I'm asking about Seachem Excel is because I can't find any information about the ingredient listed on it, where I can find information on Glutaraldehyde with ease, which makes me question Seachem's products even more.

    Don't get me wrong, it's not like I"m going to try and make something similar. I grew up with this kind of thinking that if you want to know something, you question it - having a stepfather as a chemical engineer and 5 brothers in agriculture / horticulture / farming background with university degrees, it's in my nature to question everything and to find the answers to it all. I would like to know the chemical composition / formula of Excel's ingredient to compare with glutaraldehyde to see what the difference is as to why it would work differently when they both are carbon sources, yet Excel seems to work much more effectively on certain algae issues when glutaraldehyde is supposed to be a sterilising and preservative agent as well. Think about it, that boggles the mind, doesn't it?
     
  19. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    Excel is a 2% solution of whatever their core component is. It is a Gluteradahyde based product. Well, it was. I don't know if they've changed their formula makeup of the product recently.

    Ours is a stabilized version, which renders it a much safer product, but it comes at the cost of the BBA treatment. I must say, I'm happy with that. Purely from the standpoint that treating the problem, not the symptoms, is a far better plan of attack in my opinion. Once the issues are sorted, then there are no more symptoms to take care of.

    But yes, keep searching for your answers. I'm certain the more you dig, the more info you will find.


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  20. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    The Excel form of gluraldehyde is a polymerized form called Polycycloglutaracetal. What that means is it consists of glutaraldehyde units which are linked together in long strands which will break down into single glutaraldehyde units when diluted in an aquarium.

    I once had a very constructive discussion with the CEO of Excel on TASA before TASA dived off a cliff. Do a search on Glutaraldehyde on TASA if you are interested. Glutaraldehyde is a dangerous chemical, and needs to be used with care.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
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