Salicylic acid

Discussion in 'D.I.Y.' started by f-fish+plants, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    Warning - I suspect this a is a bit fringe on the DIY side, or even the next product from scape ?

    Not so much on APSA but on TASA a few moons back I recalled the mention of the active ingredient in aspirin that originates from a willow tree being great at stopping algae ... I tried the asprin extra strong in my tanks back then .. not really. Anyway - fast forward to some top-aqua algae remover ... the usage instruction sounds very familiar - long removal cycle - several weeks of 1 treatment etc .... went digging on TASA fond post between Dirk and Laure .. and one of the products was Algin, and it had almost the same dosing routine as the top-aqua. Fast forward, got some salicylic acid on the weekend - this stuff is scary - do not inhale (actually maybe you should not even consider using it - at own risk like everything in life) anyway - it is not the most water soluble substance in but I was able to get what I think is a gram dissolved in a l of water. Been doing some top-up doses on two tanks ... and I almost think it is working.

    Anybody else using raw salicylic acid?


    Later Ferdie
     
  2. Pierré Schoonraad
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    Pierré Schoonraad Green fingers

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    Dude you don't screw around do you? How does it affect the pH?

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  3. wearsbunnyslippers
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    wearsbunnyslippers Administrator Staff Member

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    wart remover?
     
  4. DaveAbes
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    DaveAbes Green fingers

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    never heard of this and I'm also under the assumption this tank is plants only.

    It definitely seems worth setting up a small algae tank for testing though.
     
  5. f-fish+plants
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    Ag no man - now I have to go find my 6 year old pH meter, get some calibration fluid and report back.


    in moderation ... I think it could work for most, tesing on Lucky13 anad 36 degrees at the moment, so we will soon know if it is buce or guppy or BN killer ;-)


    sure if you want to be technical about it ;-), from my ggl phd it seems to be a blocker relevant only to algae for phosphate uptake .. so we starving the algae ...

    Had no power for a long while hope this does not impact the results.

    Later Ferdie
     
  6. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    Lucky 13 ... a test tank doing fine on the SA. Still recovering ... but doing find.
    [​IMG]

    Later Ferdie
     
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  7. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Salicylic acid is a general plant signalling molecule, in other words a plant hormone, so definitely have a negative effect on your plants as well. It may block algal phosphate update, but be careful with aspirin it also has major effects on fishes and humans!

    So definitely not something harmless that you should be adding for experimentation...
     
  8. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    Thanks Dirk, yeah pure Salicylic acid is nasty stuff. Asprin did nothing for the algae ... so I am obliged to try the pure stuff. I am heading your warning on the impact on other fish, plants and not just algae. Desperately trying to find some more research on it .. for Humans I get the complications can include swelling of the brain or lungs, seizures, low blood sugar, or cardiac arrest. - asprin right?

    What is not clear is the impact the larger water body in our tanks has .. Also have no clue what the symptom of swelling of the lungs would mean for say a pleco or guppy or snail etc..


    What I have done to get to this point for using SA.

    Maintain fertz dosing as per normal.

    1) Initial low dose 20ml in 220l ..
    2) H2O2 bomb in the tank - this seems to weaken the algae, maybe more susceptible to SA?
    3 )Long Aeration till all H2O2 bubbles cleared
    4)WC
    5) 3 x 20ml SA over +- 4 days
    6) Leave a few days to make sure no new algae seems to be coming back ( I am hear now )
    Considering the following steps going forward.
    7) WC maybe 50%
    8) Add some Rooibos as a fish tonic.
    9) Maintenance dose of SA ?



    If it is true that it stops some forms of algae growth at low low rates .. then I am keen to do the long term experiment of say 10ml a month once the above is stable.

    Yeah same sentiment for liquid carbon, gluteraldehyde get that wrong and nothing survives. Still risk not want not .. so I will give it a spin and report back what I loose when. Ah if.


    I am now repeating the above protocol on 36degrees...deviated by doing a bit more SA before I did the H2O2 bomb this morning,

    [​IMG]
    now starting airation.

    My expectation - the tank should turn a bit as the stuff in the canister dies off, and water goes slightly murky.. 24 hours after that I stop the aeration - do a 30 -50% WC depending on TDS and Temp differences. Then the the SA treatment for x days .. by then I should know what worked on Lucky13 as the next step.
     
  9. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    Most of the H2O2 bubbles are now gone.
    [​IMG]
    Been running the extra aeration for a few hours ...
    [​IMG]

    Going to leave that going for the night.

    Later Ferdie
     
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  10. tyronegenade
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    tyronegenade Specialist

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    What algae species seem sensitive to the treatment?
     
  11. f-fish+plants
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    I have not had any under a microscope ..... I would call it effective for

    Brown algae
    Green hair algae
    Black brush algae
    Green spot algae

    Ultimately I hope that the Otocinclus and the Bristle Nose Pleco with some snails and cows will keep it under control, but I had to look for a chemcial solution when that execution was clearly failing.

    I can post more pics if you like.

    Later Ferdie
     
  12. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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  13. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    Side note - I have some Cladophora algae in a different tank, but really do not want to add that tank to the experiment - I kinda am OK with the Clado.

    Not sure about BGA in any tanks at the moment - best bet would be to find that on Lucky13's shelf ... all the extra air time with the periodic water flow seems to be a good breading ground.

    Later Ferdie
     
  14. f-fish+plants
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    Interesting relevant read - http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2017/06/salicylic-acid-positive-effect-in-hydroponics.html

    "Finally it is also worth noting that salicylic acid is not aspirin (aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid, a related yet different molecule) so if you want to experiment with this additive you should buy salicylic acid instead of just "dumping some aspirin" into your foliar or hydroponic nutrient solution." - Check, same goes for dumping asprin in your tanks .... does not work for algae.

    Later Ferdie
     
  15. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    As expected, tanks had that haze this morning..

    [​IMG]

    Did a 30% WC on 36degrees after I stopped the aeration, have spotted 4 dead guppies .. rest seem to be doing just fine.

    upload_2017-7-16_6-23-17.png

    TDS now at 300 ... Just remembered on Lucky13 I did a scape bac-up just to get some love back into the tank. Will do it here also.

    Later Ferdie
     
  16. tyronegenade
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    tyronegenade Specialist

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    If I recall correctly, Van Duijn's Diseases of Fishes lists salicylic acid as a gill irritant.

    Thanks for the info on the algae. Info on Clado would be most valuable...
     
  17. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    From 36degrees: The protocol kills spiral vallis by the looks of it. Riccia might also take a knock .. hard to say did not have much to start with.

    [​IMG]
    Rest looks OK.
    [​IMG]
    On Lucky13: BBA is not growing but also not dying .. maybe I need to up the SA a bit. Subwassertang seems to be dying off rest of the plants are on a growth spurt.

    Later Ferdie
     
  18. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    Did a quick 30% WC - TDS below

    upload_2017-7-20_6-37-32.png
     
  19. f-fish+plants
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    In Lucky13 life is going on.

    [​IMG]

    Some "new" BBA on the leaves that I need to keep track of, tester cows are doing OK.

    [​IMG]




    36 Degrees - I need to mix more SA - but the initial bit of the protocol has good results.
    [​IMG]

    Some on the glass still ... but that also took longer to clear on Lucky13

    [​IMG]

    Things are still flowering

    [​IMG]

    Later Ferdie
     
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  20. f-fish+plants
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    f-fish+plants Aquascaper

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    hmm big 40% WC on 36degrees ... I suspect I have taken too much of the snail food away, or the addition of the SA has made the buce tasty and/or easy to eat.

    [​IMG]

    also need to get fertz working ... see some GDA making a stand.

    [​IMG]

    Later Ferdie
     

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