My tank, stand and cabinet design

Discussion in 'D.I.Y.' started by AdrianT, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. AdrianT
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    AdrianT Aquascaper

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    I've created a rough idea of how I'd like my system to be. I'd appreciate some input if anyone sees any major problems/concerns. Maybe something I've over looked.

    Tank front and sides to be Starphire glass, 10mm thick, back and base just standard. Base 12mm.

    The square tubing frame will take the weight and the 'cabinet' just for neatness and not so much structural. It's interesting to note that my adding the two diagonal braces I am able to halve the maximum stress induced and significantly reduce the maximum deflection too. Deflection on the stand is critical and more than likely the number one cause for failure of large tanks in my opinion. I'm not an expert on FEA (finite element analysis) but I think this basic check (with hand calcs) is plenty good enough :eyeroll: Factor is safety is around 6,6 if memory serves. With structural steel typically yielding at 350 MPa.

    [​IMG]

    Lid and cabinet opened
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Measurements of the tank
    [​IMG]

    Max stress:
    [​IMG]

    Max stress with two rear diagonal bracings out:
    [​IMG]

    Max displacement:
    [​IMG]

    Max displacement with two rear diagonal bracings out:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2014
  2. Joshua Tree
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    Joshua Tree Valued Contributor

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    Trust an engineer :laughing7:. Good to see you are making use of that fine education your parents spent money on ;D
     
  3. Jay
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    Jay Noob

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    What programme did you use to find the stresses and deflections in the members?

    Looks very good . I do still prefer open top planted tanks but each to their own. Are you planning to build the cabinet yourself?
     
  4. JP01
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    JP01 Moderator Staff Member

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    Nice design! Would go open top with such a nice starfire glass tank.
     
  5. Pierre07
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    Pierre07 Green fingers

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    what material you planning on using for the cabinet and more importantly the canopy.
     
  6. Joshua Tree
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    Joshua Tree Valued Contributor

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    ...and what stops your canopy from sliding down the tank?
     
  7. Trev Pleco
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    Trev Pleco Algae destroyer

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    Way way too complicated all this pressure tech stuff, just let me know when it's all filled ?

    Nice design though, just something basic... remember the darker the cabinet the less it will detract from your tank and so show it off better, hence cabinets often being black..
     
  8. Joshua Tree
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    Joshua Tree Valued Contributor

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    Aah...but did he take into account the fact that gravel and rocks is heavier than water?
     
  9. AdrianT
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    AdrianT Aquascaper

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    Inventor Professional 2014. It's not an FEA program, but has a basic area for structures. I use the program every day, designing conveyor and chute systems for diamond mines :evil6: Works exceptionally well, especially with skeletal modelling techniques.

    Yes I am planning to build it myself. My garage is pimped out for building stuff ;-)

    Not sure on the wood, might go with teak. I hear you on the dark wood, will give it some serious thought. I don't like supawood and the like. I'm old school.

    As I said in the opening statement this is a rough idea. It has no detailing currently. So yes, as it looks now it would slide down... :p Obviously in reality it won't. Last time I put in stopper blocks in a hood was years ago and I drilled an 8mm hole into the palm of my hand. I like to think I've evolved since then! Let's see :violent1:

    Yes the calcs include water, the actual glass, rocks, hood etc.
     
  10. Hanekka
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    Hanekka Moderator Staff Member

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    My 2c, get rid of the handles and instead go for those magnetic push-to-open thingies. Especially if you're going to be using "real" wood.


    Have you considered laminated Supawood?
    And (out of interest) what weight did you spec for the rocks?
    And (I guessing you did, but asking anyway :thumbsup: ) did you include welded seams with the FEA test?
    And (last question :p ) how are you planning on attaching the wood cabinet to the metal frame? Duct tape? :laughing7:
     
  11. wudze
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    wudze Aquascaper

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    That sounds like an episode of "Redneck Repairs"!! :evil6:
     
  12. AdrianT
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    AdrianT Aquascaper

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    I think I stumbled onto the wrong forums
     
  13. JP01
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    JP01 Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Re: My tank, stand and cabinet design

    Guy's let's take it easy on new member's they do not know you yet and might think you are serious, so let's keep the comments constructive.

    We can learn lots from you Adrian, so please do keep posting.
     
  14. Hanekka
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    Hanekka Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry sorry. Was just joking! :p

    But seriously, though. How are you planning on attaching the wood to the frame? I'm asking 'cause I have an ugly metal frame that I'd like to enclose with a nice wood cabinet. And I have no clue how to do that... My plan so far was duct tape, hence the question/joke. :laughing7:
     
  15. Joshua Tree
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    Joshua Tree Valued Contributor

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    Agree with JP. Don't take anything I have said as an insult or a dig. Stick around and have some fun with us... :occasion14:

    I am an Engineer :sleepy4: hence the questions about the rock and gravel in your calcs.

    I have a internal rim about 30mm above the bottom of my canopy so that the canopy rests and overhangs the tank. I didn't see something like this on your pic so I thought you may have missed it but see you have it sorted :icon_thumright:. Avoid drilling any more holes in your palms :laughing7: (funnily enough this is one of the most common injuries, screwdrivers, drills etc into the palm)

    Regarding attaching the wood to the frame, some guys use velcro so that they can remove the panels if they need to.

    Marc
     
  16. Chongkie
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    Chongkie Aquascaper

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    Just my 2c worth... wouldn't it be easier to just build the frame with timber then clad with real wood?

    I have a similar sized tank with sump, with LOTS of rocks (over 100kg) and sand (1 bag of pfs), and it seems to be holding up quiet nicely... :hello2:

    something like this... [​IMG]

    Regarding the canopy, it will work! either build a light weight frame at fits perfectly on the glass or just add some internal lip all around the edge of the "shell" then it will be fine :p My canopy is made from 16mm supawood.. and it is heavy, but sits nicely on the tank.

    Frame for canopy on tank.
    [​IMG]

    95% complete cabinet.
    [​IMG]

    Sorry not trying to high jack your thread... but hopefully this helps you out abit.

    There are some issues with this enclosed canopy, as i found out the hard way. firstly is hiding your filtration. If you are using a canister, you will see the pipes, etc. very difficult to conceal the plumbing :scratch: Secondly, is the condensation & mold.. make sure to seal the wood properly!

    I agree with Hanekka, leave out the handles.

    Other than that, good luck with the build! :headbang:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2014
  17. AdrianT
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    AdrianT Aquascaper

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    Yeah timber only can work too. I will definitely consider that! Thanks for the pics and info, much appreciated. Will consider the handles too - I never thought of that, but still like my handles :drunken_smilie: The main purpose was for stuff (like the mold in the canopy), and not opinions on aesthetics. We are all different, and I climbed out from a very different rock to most :laughing7: I will definitely seal it fully.

    I would just use a wood screw. Drill a clearance hole in the frame, then sink it into the wood. Making sure you buy the right length, of course. You don't want it to penetrate through:
    [​IMG]

    Works like a charm. If you want photos of my work bench I can upload. But only at home. Work internet blocks file sharing sites... eish :cussing:
     
  18. gwhite
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    gwhite Algae harvester

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    I have a similar table/bench as Chongkie which I picked up from Builders Warehouse. Yes, my tank is bear bottom but it is a 270L tank and has a sump underneath it.
     
  19. Hanekka
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    I also have silver handles on my DIY cabinet. Silver on a dark supawood. Looks really good.

    I suppose the wood isn't going to hold any really weight, so a couple of screws should hold it. What I would've love to do with my second stand is to have the wood sides slot into each other. Then there's no need for screws, only glue to hold the "slots" to the wood panel. (sorry if my non technical jargon is confusing anyone :p )

    @AdrianT: Really like the idea of the hood lifting open like that. What do you have in mind w.r.t hinges? Ever thought of pistons to keep it open/closed? And is there a reason the hood is so tall?
    Regarding the FEA, are those point forces on the frame?
     
  20. AdrianT
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    AdrianT Aquascaper

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    With hardwood you can create proper joints if you have the time and skill (and tools). You could easily create a basic 'hook system' to hold the panels together. The velcro idea was top class, if it suits you.

    Good point, it doesn't not need to be so high. I was in a rush when I did the first draught. I have not done the details yet. I saw some horrible designs using door hinges, and piano hinges too. Will see what's available. I'm in no rush.

    Point forces don't concern me much. I look at stress and deflection and as you know stress is force divided by area. It's a roughly uniformly loaded force over the stand and as I said earlier I am no FEA expert but we have an external company doing our sign off's on structures and for an FEA for sizing beams they don't consider the joint type. Joins are something looked at separately and in terms of structural steel structures (which this is not) there are many standards connections in terms of bolted, and welded. This is a stand, it requires limited analysis as I'm sure it'll never go to the moon :happy7: My only intention was to show how two simple diagonal braces can decrease deflection. My design is by no means optimal and even reducing member sizes is poor economy given that I have to buy 6m lengths. I will stop here..
     

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