KN03 and liquid carbon - one mix to kill them all.

Discussion in 'D.I.Y.' started by f-fish+plants, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. f-fish+plants
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    Anybody have any experience with mixing / dosing liquid carbon with KNO3 as a single dose mixture?

    Currently doing this with KNO3 + Nutriplex + Scape Liquid Carbon ... no smoke yet. Early days lets see what the mix does in a tank.

    [​IMG]
    Right to left : My stock mix KNO3 and Nutriplex Macro ( I think - could be Micro will check with the next mix - part of the reason I am doing this post - memory is shot) then the larger sample is KNO3 + Nutriplex + Scape Liquid carbon. Then the previous experiment KNO3 + Nutriplex + Fe the last on the left is what is now in the dettol dosing pump .. KNO3+ Nutriplex+ Fe + Liquid Carbon.

    No reaction it would seem - heat or precipitation. Wonder if the acidity of the Nutriplex and the Scape is keeping things in-check.

    The tank is coming off a molasses and probiotic experiment, growth seemed better with the mix ( placebo - maybe) it was also on KNO3 + Nutriplex + Fe. Keeping he same dosing volume per day.

    [​IMG]
    But the upkeep of the filtration is / was a killer ...

    [​IMG]

    I can not deal with having to clean filtration every week - 2 weeks at a stretch.

    Anybody else dosing something similar ?

    Later Ferdie
     
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  2. f-fish+plants
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    Nutriplex Macro = Nutriplex Grow

    Nitrogen 2%
    Ammonia Nitrogen 1.5%
    Nitrate Nitrogen 0.5%
    Phosphate (P2O5) 1%
    Potassium (K2O) 6%
    Magnesium EDTA(Mg) 0.8%

    Derived from:
    Potassium Nitrate, Mono Potassium
    Phosphate, Magnesium EDTA

    Fe = Iron Chelate Fe 13% from Strake Ayres.


    Later Ferdie
     
  3. wearsbunnyslippers
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    if there is no precipitation then i guess its fine..
     
  4. f-fish+plants
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    Yeah ... went back the the tubes ... Something did happen in the mix - see how both the big samples are more "yellow" - remember I am colour blind ;-)


    This is today's sample - sooooo something is happening over time.

    Anyway - it is in the dosing pump, so now we let it sit.

    Later Ferdie
     
  5. f-fish+plants
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    [​IMG]

    With the correct image ...
     
  6. Clare
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    Clare Aquascaper

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    I don't know why your images are disappearing. It's not just happening at APSA, also at TASA too. All I am seeing is this "no entry sign" where the image is supposed to be:

    Untitled-4.jpg
    :scratch::scratch::scratch: Even seeing it across some of your posts on your tank thread as well.
     
  7. wearsbunnyslippers
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    i also see the no entry sign..
     
  8. f-fish+plants
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    upload_2016-12-6_18-41-12.png


    that is just plain odd
     
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  9. f-fish+plants
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    Having not killed any fish or plant on the auto dosing since starting the experiment, it is time for general use. Doing very low liquid carbon dosing here. Most tanks that get the mix has not had liquid carbon in a long long time - if ever.

    New batch ...

    This is going to be the general mix for now:
    50g KNO3
    + 400g of hot water (yes I mix this all on a scale - so lets stick to weight for now)
    + 80g Nutriple Grow (also a liquid)
    + 8g Fe 13%
    Fill the rest of the bottle with scape liquid carbon - so probably 60g - since I do this over a basin. Doing this the bottle is filled to the brim.

    Don't think the order matters. Oh and BTW no math behind the process - just gut feeling at this stage.

    [​IMG]

    Already dosed some tanks this morning, even DIY does not go along way with MTS.

    Later Ferdie
     
  10. f-fish+plants
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    Not forgetting the obligatory sample compares.
    [​IMG]

    New sample on the left. Again no precipitation in any of the samples, might be onto something here. Time will tell.

    Later Ferdie
     
  11. f-fish+plants
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    Wait a second - thinking might be flawed ... half life of liquid carbon. Need to ponder this a bit.
     
  12. Clare
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    Clare Aquascaper

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    Yeah very odd. I can't even view that image in Tapatalk either. Only WBS and I are reporting this issue. Not sure if you are linking from an external source or uploading it. I find it's easier to upload and leave it there instead of linking from an external source as then there's no chance of the image going missing later on.
     
  13. f-fish+plants
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    Well when I remember I check with a second browser that content can be accessed and that the access is not restricted. But it seems like I have had a few cases that it worked on the checking and not for some members. The upload thing is great but having unlimited network storage that is not part of APSA is probably better.


    But all good .. have not lost and image yet .. just re-link them.

    We going OT .. so back to liquid carbon.

    This got me wondering ... what triggers the half life of liquid carbon?
     
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  14. Clare
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    Perhaps this is why one shouldn't mix liquid carbon with other chemicals. If you look at it this way, it's a 2.5% gluteraldehyde already diluted liquid from a 100% chemical solution. I'm looking at my bottle right now. If you are mixing it with another product and adding it with more dilution of the other product then it could probably decrease its shelf-life even more. I'm just theorising, you know, seeing that glutaraldehyde has already been diluted for safe use and seeing you're adding more water to the mix decreasing it even more. Think that might make sense since you need to put it straight into the tanks instead of mixing it.

    Your call on that one.
     
  15. f-fish+plants
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    Ok that took some reading ... and yeah the stuff is not as good / bad as one might think. Still your call if you want to use it in your tank.

    @Clare I was in full agreement with the dilution theory, but then read up on SIDS INITIAL ASSESSMENT PROFILE for GLUTARALDEHYDE, thanks for the push.

    See http://www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/111308.pdf

    After you have read what it is used for, in section 3.1.2 .. a

    Half-life: 508 days at pH 5 at 25C; 102 days at pH 7 at 25C; 46 days at pH 9 at 25C.

    We looking at pH and the possibility of it being metabolised by bacteria - no bacteria should be present in the solution .. so I think we are OK.

    But how does one test it ... it is soapy - is it still soapy after x days / weeks - if yes then I suspect that is some indication of it still being around.

    So back to the samples ... give them all a 2 second shake and compare.

    [​IMG]

    And as desired ... left to right 1,2,4 have bubbles that are sticky and 3,5 none as expected since they never had any glut added.

    As for checking when adding it to your fish tank - I can not recommend that you shake the tank to look for bubbles - #justsaying

    This means we are back on track and the half life concern in my mind, is off the table. Actually I am now even more convinced that doing this mix has some real potential as one mix - how simple would that be.


    Later Ferdie
     
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  16. f-fish+plants
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    Another good read ..

    http://www.caiber.com/info/UCARCIDE CATALOGO.pdf

    "Rapid and complete metabolism under aerobic and anaerobic conditions found in aquatic sediments"

    and the section on Chemical Stability .. "The stability of glutaraldehyde is influenced primarily by pH and temperature."

    I am sure our tanks are considered to aerobic.. actually just read the entire doc .. it has some good practical info.

    Later Ferdie

    upload_2016-12-9_1-39-8.png
     
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  17. Clare
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    Clare Aquascaper

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    Could it be activated by something else? Sunlight? Reactivity by chain proteins in the chemical formula makeup and binding each other, seeing there is no rejection (AKA no layer separation) hence the new colours and breaking down eventually, which indicates you might need to use it up faster than you need to?

    I don't claim to be an expert or whatevesoever, my dad was an chemical engineer so I've gleamed over some subjects and I've spend some time in a lab observing techs doing stuff. An associate of my dad's who still owns a lab recently popped up and I have memories of my time in their labs - I used to ask her so many questions as a teenager. LOL.
     
  18. f-fish+plants
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    Yeah sunlight I suppose would, but these are all indoors no direct light. Luckly this will probably on last 10 days or so. So in this mix I think we are OK.
    Keeping an eye on it.

    Later Ferdie
     
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  19. f-fish+plants
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    Hmm clearly I need to change something in the mix .. I am thinking of remove Fe first in the next batch.

    [​IMG]

    Oh well ...

    Later Ferdie
     
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  20. f-fish+plants
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    new mix, 50g KNO3 + 20g Multifeed classic + 100ml scape liquid carbon - rest all water in 500ml dispenser.

    So adding a bit more P than before and some micro's
    [​IMG]

    nice an pink and clear solution

    [​IMG]

    Later Ferdie
     

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