Illegal Fish

Discussion in 'General Aquatic Talk' started by Skye01, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. Skye01
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    Skye01 Algae harvester

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    Hi all,

    I'm going to copy and paste the mail I submitted to TASA for those of you that are not the site...

    http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-fish/brak...30910166073809

    http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-fish/brak...20910005963809

    http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-fish/krug...00910001507509

    This is exactly the kind of irresponsible trade that we are all trying to get banned or regulated...

    Some unsuspecting person goes in and buys a cute little fish never expecting it to grow into a monster that they can no longer keep in their little tank and not only that proceeds to eat everything else in their tank.

    I don't have a problem if they insist on getting a permit to sell such fish, but I would rather that they insist on the buyers signing a contract & getting a permit to keep them as well. At least that way they can be regulated on numbers allowed into the country. I also feel that it is the responsibility of the person selling these fish to also find out if the buyer is indeed a responsible fish keeper and not just some Joe Blogs of the street and has not the first idea of how to even look after fish.

    It's because of people like this that spoil the rest of the hobby for the rest of us. :ang4: :BangHead:

    I received a formal complaint form, that I will ask the mods to put a sticky on, from the right people enforcing the rules and regulations.
     
  2. Slagter
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    Slagter Aquascaper

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    The pages no longer exist.
     
  3. Skye01
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    Skye01 Algae harvester

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    I'm not sure why the link doesn't work, but please go onto Gumtree & check the fish for sale.

    There is someone in Krugersdorp and another in Brakpan that are advertising these fish for sale.

    Thanks Sean. :thumb:
     
  4. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Guys,

    I actually do not know which fishes you are referring to exactly, but I did go and check gumtree in Gauteng.

    I find the following banned and highly illegal species on offer:

    1. Axolotls which are banned as all amphibians are banned. I wonder where they originate from, but I know that there are some at a university where they hold a permit for them as banned species and where they are kept because they are used in zoology practicals. Please note that this is a suspicion and I am not accusing someone by making this statement. It may even be that they have been removed illegally from that facility, but it goes to show how easily these can get around even if banned.

    2. I see Neon Orange x red lobsters which are banned and which are being offered by "we make fish affordable".

    3. Then I see the same retailer offering blossom snakeheads, which are an incredible threat to our biodiversity. Snakeheads are causing havoc in the southern USA and they were brought into the states by aquarists.

    4. Just a little bit further I see a breeding pair of turtles on offer, WHAT NEXT?

    So will someone in Gauteng please phone the Nature Conservation department and tip them off about this. I mean this is just simply in your face, and in the faces of the Nature Conservation authorities. It weakens all arguments such as those that you may be trying to present to Gauteng authorities against the proposed regulations.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  5. Pierré Schoonraad
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    Pierré Schoonraad Green fingers

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    I have seen this post on TASA an hit the report button on these adds as being black listed and illegal to keep in SA. Why do we all have to wait for someone else to react to this. "So will someone in Gauteng please phone the Nature Conservation department and tip them off about this. I mean this is just simply in your face, and in the faces of the Nature Conservation authorities."

    Come on people. DO IT,then you don't need to wait for somebody else. Grow a back bone and stand up. Because we are sitting back and waiting for somebody o react our world is crumbling around us.

    Make a change NOW
     
  6. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Pierre,

    The reason why I am asking someone else in Gauteng to report this to the authorities is because I am not in Gauteng. I also think that if someone from Gauteng reported this to Gauteng Nat Con it would be good, particularly if the same person may be someone who will oppose the new regulations. There is a strategic advantage here for you Gautengers, so use it.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  7. Dewald
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    Dewald Valued Contributor

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  8. tyronegenade
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    tyronegenade Specialist

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    An Alligator Gar in 3ft tank? :violent1:

    I support the banning of fish like this, not because of any perceived threat to our biodiversity, but because of the cruelty these large fish suffer in tiny tanks. :ang4:

    Axolotls seem to be everywhere... I've heard people casually discussing their Axolotls in pet stores. No hushed voices... a perfectly audible conversation. I know one person who brought in their own Axolotls from overseas. No problems with customs... No point in having laws if they are not enforced.
     
  9. Skye01
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    Skye01 Algae harvester

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    Like I posted on TASA, it seems that Alligator Gars are not on the black list so they are getting into the country without a problem...

    I have to agree with you tyronegenade, these fish reach an eventual size of 10+ feet when fully grown, there are very few people besides the zoos that will have a tank big enough to accommodate them. It really is very cruel...

    You are complaining about all these species coming in but after having worked a while in the pet industry, I very angrily discovered that, if you own an imported specie, like the American Alligator, you don't need a permit to keep them, but if you own something that is indigeneous to SA you have to go through hoops of fire if you are caught and trying to get a legal permit is another story... :BangHead:

    It just makes me so angry that the people that are employed by NATCON don't seem to have been educated regarding not only fish, but plants and wildlife and the impact they could have on our very precarious eco-system. It really brings to mind the whole "gravy train"/jobs for mates issue... They are now making us, as fish keepers, the target for their past lapses... :ang4:
     
  10. Sir Bob Roberts
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    Sir Bob Roberts Green fingers

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    dear god, snakeheads? if you dont know how hectic these fish/monsters can be, research them.

    and axolotls, yes there was a breeding pair at one of the universities (wont say which one) and they gave them to a pet shop, which the pet shop gave away (is illegal to buy or sell them)
    axolotls have exactly no threat to our river/lake systems in s.a if let go, unlike the monster snakeheads

    sure i can understand jumping on the band waggon and wanting to report ppl left right and center (old communist tactic) for selling illegal animals, but maybe you should think, which would you rather report?
    an axolotl or a snakehead

    and yes if this whole "you have to have a license to own any pets" thing goes thru, you will see more and more illegal animals around, it will make the system worse not better,
    i.e i am an illegal guppy owner...lol...to i am a illegal ape owner (what is the difference in some peoples minds)
     
  11. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Sir Bob,

    Although the Axolotls are not the sort of monsters that snakeheads are, they would compete with our local frogs fishes and amphibians and it is precisely this sort of thing that can cause upsets leading to the extinction of our own frogs and fishes. In the Western Cape, I know of a number of very sensitive frog species which if they had any competition for food which just simply die out in no time. So the bottom line is that there is a good reason why axolotls are banned and should be so.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  12. Sir Bob Roberts
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    Sir Bob Roberts Green fingers

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    i can agree with you and from my research i can say that axolotls are "extremely" sensitive creatures and most probably would not be able to live in s.a systems.
    case in point, they are so sensitive that they have been classed as extinct in the wild for 2 years now.
    and by reporting breeders or owners of this creature even thou illegal, government people would surly kill them, either by not understanding their needs or by culling them
    and i am not happy with that idea and if someone in s.a is lucky enough to own and keep these guys alive, they would truly love them and not let them go into the wild
     
  13. Joshua Tree
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    Joshua Tree Valued Contributor

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    I don't mean to derail the thread but having seen the word Axolotls thrown about I went to google images to see what they were. What are the fibrous thingies on the back of their heads for? :scratch:
     
  14. Sir Bob Roberts
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    Sir Bob Roberts Green fingers

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    they are their gills.
    they are almost the most studied animal in the world due to their strange abilities.
    you can cut off their limbs and they will grow back.
    you can cut their brains in half and it will grow back.
    it can be metamorphosed, meaning it can change its body and become a land animal if the water is not to its liking (thou rare), also scientists in the early 1900's discovered that if you put iodine in their water they will be metamorphosed.
    and if you research you find out even more weird things about these extinct in the wild creatures.
    there is a creature in europe in one tiny little stream that comes from the earth, that looks like an axolotl but has an extremely long tail.
    they had to cover up the stream and entrance to the cave with metal to stop people from collecting them, last time i saw a video on them, they found less than 4 there, its called an "olm"
    i still dont think classing axolotls and snakeheads together is right, one is extinct in the wild and the other is causing mass extinction on a terrifying level.
    the people who wrote these rules are the same people who tried to class bearded dragons as venomous, so excuse me from believing everything they say.

    [​IMG]

    long live the axolotl
     
  15. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    OK Sir Bob,

    You obviously know them very well, so I take your point, and so they should definitely not placed in the same league as the snakeheads which are monstrous eating machines. It is good to know there is an expert amongst us who can express an opinion. I actually think that Nat Con should make use much more of us "amateurs" to assist them.

    Axolotls are the larval stages of salamanders right? Salamanders are banned in SA which is why the axolotls would be banned as well.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  16. oscar freak
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    oscar freak Algae harvester

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    why cant responsible people buy permits for certain fish.the high cost of these fish and ensuing permits would highly unlikely result in the fish ending up in the local river.
     
  17. Joshua Tree
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    Joshua Tree Valued Contributor

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    Thanks for the response :icon_thumright:. Nice to learn something new and especially about such a wierd and wonderful fish, lizard, salamander thingy :)
     
  18. larch
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    larch Green fingers

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    Axolotls wont survive a day in our polluted water ways. They need near pristine water conditions since their "gills" sit on the outside they also absorb some water through their skin making them sensitive too any type of heavy mentals or chemicals in the water.
     
  19. tyronegenade
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    tyronegenade Specialist

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    Axolotls can't take the heat (and need cold water to breed) so they would never establish in KZN or Gauteng or Limpopo etc... but they could survive in the cool mountain streams of the Cape. They are voracious feeders so they could pose a problem to other aquatic organisms. But at this stage I wonder where they could invade without being swallowed by a bass or trout?

    To a large extent this legislation seems a desperate attempt to shut the stable door after the horses, cows, pigs, ducks, chickens and donkeys have bolted. Should we not be drawing up a smaller list of things we don't want here (as opposed to regulating the organisms that are already here) and then educating customs on keeping them out? I find the mention of rats in the other thread especially amusing. How do you stop a rat from going where it wants to go? Does the government think they shutting down the sale pet rats will suddenly make the MILLIONS of rats roaming free in South Africa stop doing what rats do? We can speculate on how bass ended up in Trevor's dam all we want but the bottom line is that they got there from some other stream or dam. It is perhaps more feasible to concentrate on keeping snakeheads from crossing the Indian Ocean than what it is regulating the movement of carp.
     
  20. Sir Bob Roberts
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    Sir Bob Roberts Green fingers

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