Algaecide bad move.

Discussion in 'Plant Problems' started by Joebanjo, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. Joebanjo
    Offline

    Joebanjo Noob

    • APSA Member
    15%
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Tarlton
    Hi Guys need some advice.
    Despite all the warnings I used an algaecide in my aquarium and now got loads more problems than just algae. The algae was not so bad to start with but decided to give it a go, was convinced by someone it is save. It did work well the first week and even the bbh took a knock but now 6 weeks later my tank is still supper clean but not only that Im now loosing plants, seems that all my biological help has been killed the water substrate everything is supper clean but also supper dead.
    I did a few water charges since I realise what was going on. I also added activated carbon to try remove the algaecide together with water changes but still dont see any life in the tank yet. Plants are still hanging on but slowly melting and got a new problem with diatoms appearing.

    Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    1,093
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    Hi Joebanjo,

    Although this will be a brand name, you will have to tell us which algicide, otherwise we cannot give you any advice.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  3. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    1,093
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    The brand will simply have to take the criticism, but if there are algicides which are being sold that cause these problems then it is better that we know about them. Algae is a common problem in a planted aquarium.
     
  4. Joebanjo
    Offline

    Joebanjo Noob

    • APSA Member
    15%
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Tarlton
    Hi Dirk thanks for replying.
    No problem. Aquadine aquarium algae blocks and I dosed half the recommended rate.
    I think it would work great for a fish only setup it really works cleaning up algae but it sterilised my whole tank and definitely also stunted plant growth.
    Would definitely kill shrimp, high copper.
    Monte carlo took it the hardest and started melting.
    Was about a month ago and did several water changes 50% since then and added activated carbon to try get rid of it.
    Im getting some green algae growth again now on the glass, never thought I would be so happy to see algae but its a sign the algaecide is out.
    Plants still seems very dormant not responding to high light and CO2 injection, not getting any perling yet.
    The diatoms appearing now again in my established tank about a year, probably means I killed everything biological and its like a new tank starup, every thing needs to get in balance again.
    Was a hard lesson.
     
  5. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    1,093
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    So Joebanjo,

    Can you just confirm this, does Aquadine contain copper? Can you just confirm that? Can you also check on the label whether it states which form of copper?

    Why I ask this, is because I am a biochemist and I can explain to you what copper does in an aquarium, but let me first hear if and which form of copper it actually is before I reply.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  6. Joebanjo
    Offline

    Joebanjo Noob

    • APSA Member
    15%
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Tarlton
    Hi Dirk much appreciated.

    There is no mention or list of any active ingredients on the packaging, was not a good move to put an un known chemical in my aquarium I regret.
    How ever was told by the aquarium shop owner its his secret weapon against algae and I took his advice.
    From chating to other scapers was told that active ingredients is probably copper sulfate. Will attach photos of packaging.
    Also attached a few photos of plants hit hardest MC and S Repens really took a hard knock both melting, also you will see the redbrown algae, diatoms I presume covering them now. X mass moss also went brown and thin but got new growth on there tips.
    Think the worst is over. But for all other scapers out there it does what it says kill algae very good but also lethal to plants, lucky I dosed half the recommended rate.

    Tank sizes 1.2 long /600wide/ 400deep

    Plants.
    Anubias.
    Amazon swards.
    S Repens.
    Repens red.
    MC.
    X mass moss.
    Rotala green.
    And frog bit to help keep nitrates down.
    Dosing scape complete.
    30% waterchange once a week.

    2× zed light lancia 8 hour. 100% intensity.
    CO2 injection with inline reactor, start 1 hour before lights on and stop 1 hour before lights off. CO2 25 ppm all other parameters are good.
    At night when lights and CO2 is not on I run an airstone on timer to go off 2 hours before lights and CO2 comes on.

    Quotation would running aistone at night cause a CO2 fluctuation from day to night that may cause algae ?

    20200621_130451.jpg

    20200621_130429.jpg

    20200621_132626.jpg

    20200621_132643.jpg

    20200621_132713.jpg
     
  7. Joebanjo
    Offline

    Joebanjo Noob

    • APSA Member
    15%
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Tarlton
    Plants in the white sand substrate got flourish root tabs about 2 months back.
     
  8. Joebanjo
    Offline

    Joebanjo Noob

    • APSA Member
    15%
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Tarlton
    Filtration

    DIY 2200 liters an hour. Tank folume 6 times an hour.
    Filter media sponge, lica expanded clay balls 10 to 20 mm.
    CO2 injected on intake side ( in attached photo) pump straight to outlet. Works great, bit of sprite but micro bubbles brushes over all the plants.

    20200528_103310.jpg

    20200528_103227.jpg
     
  9. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    1,093
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    Hi Joebanjo,

    Thanks for your detailed reply, that does help me to get a complete picture of what your setup looks like so that I can give advice.

    So let me first comment on the algicide Aquadine. This is of course a cheap product and because it is aimed at ponds, I would agree that it contains copper. Now copper actually belongs in the museum of fishkeeping and from my biochemical brackground it is, in my opinion, actually dangerous and should not be used in an aquarium at all, and never again! Copper sulphate has been used as an algicide, and it has also been used to kill snails in the past. It's cheap, so that is why it has been used. What is not mentioned on these products is the major detrimental effects that it has on fishes and on plants. At the dosages recommended, or at what rate it is released from the blocks, the copper levels in the aquarium are much, much too high, and will certainly cause all the fishes to go sterile and will kill the plants after a couple of months as you have experienced. Copper, in tiny doses, is required by all organisms, together with tiny amounts of Zinc, and Iron. If the doses of Copper are too high, they simply replace Zinc and Iron and then the energy delivery systems, the so-called electron transport chain in the mitochondria of fishes and plants, and also photosynthesis in the chloroplasts of plants cannot work, and slowly but surely they grind to a halt and die. That is what you have observed and would be in full agreement with copper toxicity.

    Your efforts to remove it using activated charcoal are good and should have reduced the levels as well as water changes, but copper has a nasty habit of binding to wood and substrate and still leaking from that back into the aquarium water, so you may find, and you will hate me for saying this, that you may have to replace your substrate and wood completely. See if matters improve, but if they don't, then you will have to give this some consideration.

    Your CO2 setup looks good, it sounds as though you running at quite a high rate if you are seeing microbubbles, you can reduce that a little without any negative effect. Switching it off at night is correct, and running an airstone at night is fine. Plants don't need CO2 in the dark in any case, so aerating the water has no effect, even it if will reduce the CO2, the plants can't use it in the dark in any case.

    Some of your plants look anaemic, such as the Staurogyne, but that could be because of the copper, or because of the ferts. I won't comment on the ferts because I don't use Scape complete, but produce my own fertilizers and therefore have a conflict of interests.

    So see if matters improve, and I hope they will, otherwise other measures may be necessary.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  10. Joebanjo
    Offline

    Joebanjo Noob

    • APSA Member
    15%
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Tarlton
    Hi Dirk.
    Thanks for all the advice, Im new and still trying and your advice comes highly appreciated.
    This evening for a very long time is the first time I see a little perling again, will reduce CO2 as you suggested.
    Will keep you posted over the next few weeks how it goes, see if any nasty copper is still in the substrate and hardscape, but thanks alot.
    Once its all settled again will get more information about your ferts from you if you dont mind.
    Watching my fish and picking my banjo.
     
  11. Joebanjo
    Offline

    Joebanjo Noob

    • APSA Member
    15%
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Tarlton
    Hi Dirk

    Sorry one more question, flourish excel.....
    The reason I used the algaecide is I use to dose with flourish exel, we got 3 big open rimless aquariums in our living room area and I suffer from seasonal asthma, it seemed that as soon as I started dosing flourish exel my chest would close up and battle with asthma. Dont know if it was just pure coincidence but it does say on the container, health warnings.
    Do you think in such small amounts it could cause allergic reaction ?
    Wat is Flourish excel, glutaraldehyde ?

    Regards
    Joe.
     
  12. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    1,093
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    Hi Joe,

    Yes, excel is glutaraldehyde, very definitely. It is stated to contain polymerized gluraldehyde, but the monomer definitely persists and gives it that smell.

    If you were to purchase a bottle of glutaraldehyde from a chemical company, you would have a skull and bones on the label and a very severe health warning saying the it must only be used in a fume hood, in other words in a hood which ventilates the air away from you.

    So what you are experiencing is precisely that reaction and you must under no circumstances use that, you ARE intoxicating yourself. It chemically binds to proteins in your lungs and on everything that it touches, including your fish and your plants. A number of years ago, I actually had a direct discussion with the boss of Seachem on TASA, you could most probably search for the thread, and he admitted it contained glutaraldehyde and he admitted that it could be hazardous to your health!!!!!! I am amazed the stuff is still on the shelf and that someone has not sued the hell out of the company yet.

    So please don't use it, you might find that you may wipe out the algae and yourself with it!

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  13. Joebanjo
    Offline

    Joebanjo Noob

    • APSA Member
    15%
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Tarlton
    Thanks Dirk.

    Had a bad reaction to it every time I dosed it and you confirmed it.
    It was so bad at one point my GP send me for chest x rays but it came back clear and we didnt know what was going on, only after connecting a few dots, when I dosed and when I had problems, a light came on. Will not touch it again.

    Regards

    Joe.
     
  14. Dirk B
    Offline

    Dirk B Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    73%
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,011
    Likes Received:
    1,093
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Somerset West, South Africa
    Hi Joe,

    I am glad we have clarified this. Bottom line is that you are dosing CO2 by CO2 injection in any case, so the bloody stuff is not required in any case.

    Keep safe and healthy. I also border on the hay fever and asthmatic side, so we need to look after ourselves in these Corona times in any case.

    Glad I could be of assistance.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  15. Nathanael
    Offline

    Nathanael Aquascaper

    • APSA Member
    23%
    Joined:
    May 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1,634
    Likes Received:
    621
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Somerset West
    See petition against Seachem for exactly the same reason you guys are discussing... [​IMG]

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
     
  16. Joebanjo
    Offline

    Joebanjo Noob

    • APSA Member
    15%
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Tarlton
    Thanks Nathanael

    Will have a look at it.
    I am a healthy very active early 40 year old and never had any big health or asthma problems but as soon as I used it and smell it with in minutes my chest closed up badlly, maybe Im just more sensitive to glut than most but would rather not use it anymore. I worked a bit clumsy with it though, getting it on my hands injecting it onto BBA, no gloves, no mask, but just assumed it to be pretty save being sold in my local store to anyone. Needs a mush bigger health warning on it.
    It works but is an easy fix for an underlying problem, probably best to fix it long term than to just cover it up short term.
    Thanks.
     

Share This Page