50% waterchange every 24 hours?

Discussion in 'The Nursery' started by Pierre07, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. Pierre07
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    Pierre07 Green fingers

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    Was thinking the past few weeks about this and this is dangerous :evil6:

    Will try and explain this best I can. :scratch:

    So say you got a 200l tank that you want to do a 50% waterchange every 24 hours. Firstly will this be a good idea and benefit the system.

    Now the plan. :icon_study:
    200l tank
    Then ad 2 x 200l holding containers
    The first container you fill with normal tap water. Then ad prime to declore. Ad KH up if needed and say equilibrium for GH. Ad ferts to desired levels whanted and so on. Basically get the water like you would want it going into your aquarium. When this is all done and the water was standing for say hours you transfer this water to the second holding tank. Then fill up the first holding tank again and prepare this water like you did with the first lot. Now you have 96 hours (4 days) of waterchange water.
    The idea for the two holding tanks and not one is that u always start with a known volume of water while always having some water for waterchanges. So when the first holding tank is completely empty then mix up another magic mix. If you know the parameters of your tap water you can work out how much of what you must ad to get the desirable parameters. No more testing or not that often just now and then just to see if everything is still in check.
    The waterchange can be done with a pump normally used for sumps with a tap to control the flow that you add in this case 100l per 24 hours. Then the aquarium will have to have a overflow going outside to the garden drain or wherever you want it but not on the lounge floor.

    My thinking behind this.
    Your water parameters should stay very stable.
    No pH shock with tap water added directly to tank. Seeing tap water normally has a higher pH when coming out the tap.
    No temperature shock because water added over a period of 24 hours or even better you can add a heater in the second holding tank if you want.
    Fertilizer quantity should stabilize to a set amount and never build up. As plant mass increase the balancing point should slowly adjust itself.
    Waste produced by fish and plants should be eliminated.
    This is just for waterchanges and you still add say a canister filter for filtration.

    Is this a viable option or am I really going crazy and need to go seek help. :icon_pale:
     
  2. sweetnsour
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    sweetnsour Plant menace

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    guys do these water change systems all the time on the marines but non of them from long IMO, i believe that there are too many things that can and WILL go wrong when automating things.

    nothing worng with good old elbow grease
     
  3. Pierre07
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    Pierre07 Green fingers

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    I hear what you saying but this is not actually a automated system. The first tank gets filled manually using a hose. Getting water to second tank is done with first tank being higher than the second and u open a tap and gravity will do the rest to top up the second tank. So there is no automation there. The only thing that can create a problem is is the overflow on the aquarium can get blocked and the tank overflow. Surely this can be avoided by using a waterfall type of overflow with no sift?
     
  4. Pierre07
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    Pierre07 Green fingers

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    My real question is if u would do a 50% waterchange every 24hours with fertilized enriched water and with certain water parameters. Will this benefit the system and keep everything more stable and healthy? If this makes sense.
     
  5. Luis Embalo
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    Luis Embalo Valued Contributor

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    Is water cheap in South Africa? :)

    We are talking about 600L of water per week, or more, being moved around.

    I like water changes, but why not setup a trickle water change? One 200L tank on one side, with a pump aerating it, then a hose on the other side using a solenoid to open the water to the main tank. Then refill manually.. :)

    On the holding tank had wood, ferns and anubias..
     
  6. Pierre07
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    Pierre07 Green fingers

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    Yes you will use about 3000 liters of water on a 200 liter tank per month. Maybe adjust to 100% per week. Or reuse water in garden. The idea with the second tank is that u start with a set amount of water so overdosing anything will be difficult. When you do 50% waterchanges normally how do u know how much water was actually taken out and how much to dose without testing. And logic tells me that even with 50% waterchanges a week and using EI you will still get a buildup of ferts. I'm not a chemist or some Einstein so don't shoot me if I'm wrong. But if u add say 30ppm of something per weak and the plants use say 15ppm and u do a 50% waterchange you should technology still have 7.5ppm in the tank then u add another 30ppm during the weak plants use 15ppm .................. it will take some time but a buildup will happen not true. But if u keep on adding water with a concentration of 30ppm and removing the same amount of water at the same time with 30ppm less what the system uses you will not get any buildup. Not true. Logic states this not me so shoot him if this is wrong lol
     
  7. sweetnsour
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    sweetnsour Plant menace

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    hey dude sorry man forget my post ROFL i obviously wasnt reading properly ;-)
     
  8. Pierre07
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    Pierre07 Green fingers

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    :thumbsup: but there is a risk in everything u do. Even having only a tank is a risk. It can crack and burst. Ivan's pipe on his canister came of some time ago. And and...... but there is allot of truth in what u said. The more gadgets the more the possibility of something going wrong.
     
  9. Anonymous
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    You can over-water change. But it does stand to reason that if you can keep your water conditions exactly the same as your tank and do your water changes as a trickle change that it will be constant and better than letting ferts build up over a week and then doing a big water change. Many public aquariums around the world do this as do some fish farms. There are some in tropical regions that simply take water from rivers and channel it straight into their fish farms.

    The important thing is to constantly monitor the water conditions to make sure they don't fluctuate.
     
  10. Trepcoz
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    Trepcoz Algae harvester

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    I think you will get build up in either case. the 50% of the water you remove cannot have 100% of the buildup in it (if that makes sense?)
    i.e there is always some water left in the tank when you are doing the water change and it will always contain some ferts/waste/spores etc etc.

    If I might ask, what is the reason for doing a 50% change every day, or are you merely checking if it could allow a more stable system?

    *edit* You could test this easily with a few glasses of water I think. Add some food dye into one glass (the tank) and see if after changing the dyed water by 50% a few times with clear water if there is any dye in the original glass still, my guess tells me there will be.

    One thing that has always bugged me is the CO2 i add during the day does stuff with the pH, now when I add tap water the pH changes and I add that to the tank it obviously changes the tank a bit. Not had any fish fatalities in the 2 or so years of doing the water changes but it always makes me a bit nervous.
     
  11. Pierre07
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    Pierre07 Green fingers

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    Dont think you would get a buildup with the way I want to do it ok let's look at it this way container 1 = 100l with 30ppm container 2 = 100l with 30ppm and container 3 = 100l with 30ppm together it is 300l with 30ppm so it does not matter how you mix it it stays 30ppm rite. The only container with change will be the aquarium in regards to fish waste and plants using some of the ferts. So adding water with a known amount in this case 30ppm and removing the same amount of water with a unknown ppm dew to fish waste and plants using ferts. But surely the system will find a ballance somewhere. Because u will be dosing ferts to new water volume and not tank volume u can't have a buildup. Same thing gows for KH up you add for the volume removed and not the volume of the tank so your KH stays the same. Like your test with the dye if you had two glasses with the water and the same amount of dye in them. So if you ad from the one to the other and at the same time remove the same amount of water the water will not go lighter or darker would it. So basically my aim is to keep everything constant while removing nasties from the system at the same time. If this is nonsense and you think I having a brainfart. Please tell me to go away lol
     
  12. Luis Embalo
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    Luis Embalo Valued Contributor

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    If you dosing EI why care about build up of ferts? What is the issue with the ferts? As long as I do not underdose I am ok.. But overdose at will, no issue.

    Water changes is to take out the waste created by the plants and fish.

    Yes, 50% of the water I cannot really be sure how many liters.. Unless I use 25L containers.. :)

    Look, nature is not certain, sometimes the tank has a bit more water and sometimes it has less..

    I rather concentrate on the amount of light vs CO2 I am putting in, that is what brings headaches and it is a balancing act. :)

    I like the idea of having drums on the garden to reuse the tank water for the garden and washing the car.. That will surely help with water saving.

    Also for bird water, ponds and dogs water it is good.
     
  13. TheGrissom
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    TheGrissom Green fingers

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    If you do 50 % WC then whatever build up you get in your tank can only reach just under double the initial value.

    For example if you have 10 ppm of something (and we assume it doesn't get used up and you add it with your WC weekly) when you take out 50 % it drops to 5 ppm and then you add 10 ppm = 5 ppm, next time you halve it again it will be 7.5 ppm and you add 10 ppm = 17.5 ppm, next 50 % change it will be 8.75 ppm and you add 10 ppm = 18.75 ppm etc. You will never ever reach double the initial concentration (depending on how you round off and decimal places). So as long as you add then same amount every time and do a 50 % WC and double the conc that you are adding is still safe for the fish and the system isnt adding anything uncontrollably (like NO3-) you will be okay. Obviously the above example is the worst case as plants will use nutrients so it should take much longer to reach double the initial concentration. Hope the way I explained it makes sense. I can try and clarify further if anyone wants me to.
     
  14. Pierre07
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    Pierre07 Green fingers

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    Ok I just thought a waterchanging regime with a stable supply of ferts with the correct KH, GH and pH levels spreading out over longer times would be a good way of doing things. But if this would not benefit the system it would not be worth the effort and money.
     
  15. Andre
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    Andre Green fingers

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    Hey Pierre

    Let me maybe tell you what I am doing with my 250L tank at the moment. It might give you some ideas.

    I am currently watering my front garden directly from the tank. I connect the hose to the tap and attach the other end to my tank about 2/3rds from the top.

    I then open the tap to start the siphon and then remove the end that is from the tap.

    I then use the water siphoning out from the tank to water my garden.

    Once the siphon breaks I attach the hose to the tap again and refill the tank to the top.

    I live in Bellville and we do not have chloramine in our water. The trace amounts of chlorine in the water will be mostly dissipated if you make sure that the water splashes a bit when entering the tank. The remaining amounts will also help to increase the ORP in the tank.

    I would not do this if I was keeping very sensitive fish in the tank.

    Also, the temp of the tank is around 24 degrees. Most of the fish start showing spawning colouration and behaviour shortly after the water changes due to the influx of colder clean water.
     

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