Gauteng members - pet hobby in danger

Discussion in 'General Aquatic Talk' started by PsyXe, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. Luis Embalo
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    Luis Embalo Valued Contributor

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    Re: Re: Gauteng members - pet hobby in danger

    Thanks.. got it..

    This is how I also see it.. the precedence is set, it will spread out to the other provinces.
     
  2. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Guys,

    I would just like to remind everyone from Gauteng that you need to send your complaints about this bill to the emails of the government officials given by Jenn by this coming FRIDAY 28 February 2014, if I have understood this correctly.

    Do we have some sort of general email that persons can send?

    Helberg, what has come of your legal consultation?

    Let us not let this slip please.

    Sean, how is SAPTA going to react?

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  3. Helberg
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    Helberg Noob

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    Hi people,
    Its been a totally wacked and wicked week. Had about 3 hours sleep since per night since Monday...
    Got some feedback and used that to create a summary regarding the replies. Please note, closure is today!
    The following text serves as an example, please ammend where needed. My legal gurus had a nightmare trying to understand the act, so many conflicting statements, they still trying to relate some court cases to this act as well..
    They will post to the MEC as well.
    So here goes, posted seperate in next for easier copying and editing. By no means is the summary the end all and be all, please feel free to ammend according to your believe and value system.
     
  4. Helberg
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    Helberg Noob

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    Comments on Gauteng Nature Conservation Bill, 2013 Herewith receive my commentary on the proposed bill. The commentary is given from perspective of an active Aquarist, thus the focus will mainly be on proposed regulations involving ornamental fish keeping. The activity of fish keeping better known as the Aquarium Hobby involves the contained and controlled keeping of fish, plants and invertebrate organisms in a system or tank setup whereby an environment is created for the safekeeping and wellbeing of selected specimen with the main purpose of replicating natural environments in the closed confines of a duly purpose build container. The aquarium, whether fixed or movable, would operate in isolation and apart from other water bodies, whether man made or natural. The resultant effect of the hobby creates by chance or by intention, the resultant effect that the fish, plants and invertebrate organisms will multiply. This situation can be detrimental to the environment should the wrong specimen be introduced into water systems either by accident or by intent, by the aquarist. Regulation of this hobby is crucial, however it is the scope of this regulation that concerns me, and upon which I want to comment. Definitions: Adequately Enclosed In the proposed bill, specifically under the definitions, there is no specific mention of the aquarium. Reference is made of a land area being adequately enclosed, but by definition it does not provide for fixed and or moveable structures such as aquariums or such purpose build devices. Was this omission created by intent and to what purpose? Aquaculture The definition relates to farming of aquatic organisms. Does this definition include commercial farming only, or will it be applicable to small scale and or household incidental and or intended breeding and multiplying by the aquarist as well either in a pond or fish tank? Aquatic system The definition refers to manmade impoundments, inclusive whether the area is wet or dry. Is this definition applicable and inclusive of the aquarium system, where in some instances, in order to create a specific specialised environment, a series of alternative tanks or other enclosures are used to create the required conditions. Keeping in mind, that such a system would normally operate in isolation of other water bodies whether natural or manmade. Keep The definition to keep an animal refers to “wild Animal” where the definition specifically excludes fish. Further with reference to “aqua culture”, it refers to farming activities. Where is provision being made for the keeping of fish for non agricultural purposes? This could imply that either it is legal to keep fish or illegal to keep fish in Gauteng. Statutory heritage would adopt the stance of the National acts, wherein keeping the prescripts as proclaimed by the National Acts would be upheld in court. Chapter 4 : Aquatic Biota and Aquatic Systems Section 44: Restricted activities involving alien fish Practical problems are created by not including specific fish, plants and invertebrate under “schedule 4 -unrestricted animals" of this Bill. All fish not indigenous to South Africa has been declared as alien and requiring permits to import, transport, trade in or release into any aquatic system. By implication of not including "keep", and not withstanding National Legislation, the keeping of alien fish is thus allowed without a permit. In so far as the issuing of permits for transport of alien fish within the Province, this pose logistical and practical problems, especially if the fish was procured from a Pet Shop or a fellow aquarist who wish to dispose of unwanted fish either through trade or as a gift. Then, if you ended up with fish in your tank, breeding, you would not be allowed to take excess fish to the Pet Shop, or, for trade amongst fellow aquarists. Further to that, by stating “may not release in any aquatic system” it implies that the fish so bought or received as gift, may not be placed in the aquarium it was intended for. Section 45: Catching of fish Reference is made to the term “any aquatic system” Should this section be applicable to the aquarium hobbyist, one would not be allowed to catch out of the tank any fish for placing it in another tank for whatever reason, including the sale of fish by a pet shop or breeder, and you would not be allowed to drain the tank for maintenance or repairs, as this would automatically result in the fish contained in the tank, having to be caught for safe keeping. If fish did spawn, one would not be allowed to remove the eggs from the tank, whether wanted or not. Practical solutions: Not all alien fish and plants are of a threat to our systems should they by mishap end up in our river systems. Quite a number of alien fish and aquaticplants are so sensitive to changes in temprature and water condition, that they would perish in a very short time. Then others would not be able to spawn or breed or propagate due to extremes in our climate, which of course mean that these fish and plants would die without multiplying. It is agreed that some fish and plants are of invasive nature, most of which, have already been restricted by National Regulation. Then others have the potential of being invasive. It is suggested that the lists as announced according to The National Bio Diversity Ac, sections 65-67 be incorporated into this Bill. Further reference can also be made to the United Nations "Red Lists" in effort to prevent endangered species in other countries from being exported to South Africa and Gauteng in specific unless certified as bred in captivity. The current waiting period for a permit, when applied for at Gauteng, is 15 days. Should a workable solution regarding the de-regulation of some species, some already accepted in the mainstream pet fish industry and in accordance with National Legislation, not be found, the economical impact, as well as pressure on an already loaded justice system will by astronomical. To be concidered will also be the cost of removing from site, and the safe keeping of specimens wich are to be declared to be in unlawfull possesion, pending outcome of court decisions, should the bill be enacted in its current form. As a whole the issue of permits is viable, but should be concidered only for species which are found to be invasive or potentially invasive in future. A window period should also be allowed for current owners to apply for permits in instances where deemed necessary, now and in future. Where commercial trade is involved, decsion should take into consideration as to what fish, plants and invertebrates are currently accepted as legal trade stock. Then consideration also needs to be given to owners who unexpectedly end up with fish stock due to chance breeding. A method of approach would be to encourage membership to accredited clubs, which focusses on the aquarium industry and hobby. Regards.
     
  5. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Dear Helberg,

    Thank you for this contribution. I see that it is written in typical "legal speak" which I cannot write, but which is precisely what is needed. I am of the opinion that the points that you have raised here are precisely what is required. I hope that many of the Gauteng aquarists have submitted their protests in time.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  6. Roger the Dodger
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    Roger the Dodger Algae harvester

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    Used the " sample " to send my opinion yesterday.

    :icon_salut:
     
  7. Helberg
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    Hi all.
    Again I apologise for the precis of the submision I supplied, as well as the format. I did not have the opportunity to load the my original draft ina drop box, so I summarised, copied and pasted here. To any person having use for the info provided, I am of opinion that the emails would only be tended to on Monday, so even if you are late, submit. Remember we had very little time to actually prepare as the whole thing was hidden in obscurity untill recent. Even that can be used as reason to remedy the situation later on, it might mean we have to go to court, whi h would incur costs. We still need to close ranks, we need to become united, even if from another province, as eventually the situation has the strong potential to spill over to your provinces.

    Then, I have discovered that the Minister has posted the proposed "black list" for commentary till 14 March. This affects each and every one of us, as it is National legislation. Look on the DAFF website under documents. But, it leaves only 13 days for comment!
    Maybe I should start a separate thread to this matter?
    Regards
     
  8. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Helberg,

    Thanks again for the comments and yes we had better think of organizing ourselves into a representative body.

    With regard to the black list, I would like to point out that it is far less strict and stringent than the present black list, so in my opinion this is not really a problem and we do not have to oppose it. There are a few species on that list, that make no sense, such as Chela species which are closely related with Danios, but this is actually minor.

    Helberg, that list was mentioned in the thread on http://www.apsa.co.za/board/http://www.apsa.co.za/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  9. Helberg
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    Helberg Noob

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    Hi Dirk, thanks for the great input!
    I was wondering, plant wise and fish wise, do you think the Gov missed any species which should be listed? With that, any species which needs better regulation. I am all for conserving what we have, and would want to be in a better position to contribute, especially if we can organise to grow our indiginous species. I would think a more formal club or organization would be better to achieve this, within the scope of the law. Maybe such associations are already in existance which we all don't know about?
    If we could get to a position where indigenous threatened and endangered fish could be bred in captivity, for release in designated areas. Such programmes run by Gov is costly, but like minded and responsible enthusiasts could contribute emensely if by interest they keep and breed?
     
  10. Dewald
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    Dewald Valued Contributor

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  11. RTD
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    Hi Guys

    So I sent a letter at that time and now I have received this reply

    Dear Stakeholder
    Thank you for your comments on the Nature Conservation Bill.
    As indicated by the MEC, a feedback session will be scheduled with all Stakeholders.
    You are hereby invited to the Stakeholder feedback session that will be taking place as follows:
    Date: Monday 19 May 2014
    Venue: 2nd floor, Diamond Building, 11 Diagonal Street, Newtown, Johannesburg
    Time: 9am – 1pm (registration/tea & coffee starts at 9am)
    Kindly RSVP to assist the Department with logistics.
    Thank you.
    Regards
    Bola
    Ms Abimbola Olowa
    Chief Director: Legal Services
    Department of Agriculture and Rural Development
    Tel
    : 011 240 3233 Fax: 0864202183 / 0866681973
    Email: abimbola.olowa@gauteng.gov.za
    Disclaimer: This message may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secured or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the content of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. The Gauteng Provincial Government does not take responsibility for Gauteng Provincial Government users' personal views. Gauteng Provincial Government services available online at: www.gautengonline.gov.za
    RTD, Thursday at 11:55 AM Report
     
  12. RTD
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    RTD Noob

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    Thanks Dirk

    Regards

    Roger
     
  13. Shaun
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    Shaun Plant menace

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    I am interested to know what came of this.Should I start digging a underground bunker akin to a methlab to hide my animals and tanks in?
     
  14. wudze
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    wudze Aquascaper

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  15. F1refly
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    F1refly Green fingers

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    I'm very happy with it. Some stuff is silly but most I agree with. Cornsnakes being quite invasive so I agree with that. At least no fish we really care about
     
  16. Deadpool
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    Deadpool Algae destroyer Staff Member

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    Yup...no shrimp on there!!
     
  17. F1refly
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    F1refly Green fingers

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    Only downer for me is the blue crayfish
     
  18. JP01
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    JP01 Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok so no shrimp on the list?
     
  19. JP01
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    JP01 Moderator Staff Member

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    Anything that will take over our waterways are not allowed
     
  20. wudze
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    wudze Aquascaper

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    Funny-Family-Photos-title-image.jpg

    Nope!
     
    Hanekka likes this.

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