Invertebrates dying

Discussion in 'Fish ailments' started by SFlow, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. SFlow
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    SFlow Green fingers

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    Hello APSA,

    Over the last few months my shrimps have been slowly shrinking in numbers:mad:. Now even some of the snails are starting to die which makes me really worried, but I just can't find the cause of the problem.

    Tank: standard 3ft tank, dimensions: 915x325x345 (or something like that)
    Lighting: 2x 10W LEDs on 7 hours a day
    Filters: a Aquaclear 50 HOB, a big sponge filter with a powerhead
    Temperature: 24 Deg Celsius
    Substrate: Pool filter sand about 4cm deep

    Plants:
    vallis
    java moss

    Fish and shrimps:
    6x Otos
    About 20x CRS

    The tank recently had a huge outbreak of hair algae and it just wont go away. I've also noticed that the vallis grows much slower in this tank than my other tanks. The vallis growth came to a stand still about the same time as the algae outbreak.

    Any help will be much apreaciated
     
  2. Trev Pleco
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    Trev Pleco Algae destroyer

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    I Presume you temp remains constant and in the 24'C ball park as you suggest and that being summer and hot as hell at the moment it does not rise up to 27 or more during the day ?
    Regular water changes are also required for healthy shrimp, trust you tank and water is clean and free from ammonia ...
    Turn you lights down if you excess algae and avoid excess food sitting about, again water changes help
     
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  3. Trev Pleco
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    Trev Pleco Algae destroyer

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    Your lighting seems fine for 90L. I presume you are talking about 10W LED floods here. In my non CO2 tanks the floods do generate quite a bit of algae on the glass which shrimp do enjoy of course, but you can always lift them to find the sweet spot..
     
  4. SFlow
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    SFlow Green fingers

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    The tank keeps a steady 24 Degrees, except in the days when the heat hits us really hard and the room temp hits 35:(. Then the temps rise a bit.

    I do a weekly 30% water change treated with Prime.

    I'll definitely try this tanks Trev Pleco.
     
  5. Trev Pleco
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    Trev Pleco Algae destroyer

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    That's not a 'steady 24 degrees' then, as this will make your tank temp almost the same as your room temp so close to 35 and that will definitely kill most ornamental shrimp ! It's the fluctuations just as much as the heat that does the harm. You need to go the PC fan route asp as posted on APSA recently or aircon, the route I went with no regrets I might add.

    Summer is a big shrimp killer, they can handle cold even going into a comatose state, but not the heat..

    http://www.apsa.co.za/xenforo/posts/202011/
     
  6. Trev Pleco
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    Trev Pleco Algae destroyer

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    How are you doing you water changes and how quickly.. so how long do you take and when do you add the Prime ?

    Here in the Cape I never use Prime, just 24hours to dechlorinate naturally in drums is fine, but double check with your own municipality water supplier in Paarl to see if they use chloramine, which is unlikely down here. Chloramine does not dissipate within 24hours while chlorine does.

    If you have to use Prime mix this first with the new water separately in the drum before adding , otherwise you are still giving your shrimp a chlorine dose for a short while as the Prime takes effect, even Prime can kill the more finicky shrimp if dosed quickly..

    So the general rule with shrimp is to do everything in moderation and slowly ..
     
  7. SFlow
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    SFlow Green fingers

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    I have seen my temps rise to about 28 'C, but I use some frozen bottles that helps a bit. But honestly the temps have rarely ever, probably no more than 3 times, rise that high as my house stays cool. My problem originates from something more than the heat as my shrimps have been slowly dying over the last 4 months, usually one every other day or so.
    I treat the new water in 20L buckets and leave it for 1-2 hours before adding it to the tank.

    We do not have municipal water as we live on a farm so we are reliant on borehole water. Our water has been tested and does not contain any dangerous elements for human consumption, with the exception of being very hard.

    Here is the water analysis results, maybe you know of something that i am not aware of:
    Water.PNG
     
  8. SilverMoonDragon
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    SilverMoonDragon Green fingers

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    Chlorine in a borehole? Also may be wrong but your TDS seems off the charts.
     
  9. SFlow
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    SFlow Green fingers

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    Here is the TDS chart provided to be:
    TDS chart.PNG

    The tests were done by BemLab in Stellenbosch.
     
  10. Trev Pleco
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    Trev Pleco Algae destroyer

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    I'm no water chemist, but I would never use borehole water for my tanks especially shrimps full stop, regardless of the tests done for human consumption. Remember this supply will vary during the year and water table so you never know exactly what you are giving them. I have used my well point water, not borehole which is much deeper, for my koi for twenty plus years year and no problems, but would never risk it in my shrimp tanks.

    Yep that TDS of nearly a 1000 seems way way way off the charts, as Silver Moon suggests. My well point which taps into a natural spring and which is sold commercially a few properties up and bottled as Constantia Spring water has a TDS of 300. I tested this water with Dirk many years ago and he came to the conclusion I could use 2/3 Cape tap and 1/3 well point, as the well point does provide some benefits if used in moderation..

    Have a check what Moolis has to say about it all and some other good info here as well.

    https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiCjOz7wsXKAhXIRBQKHWwjCkEQFgglMAA&url=http://petstopsa.co.za/attachments/article/5/hobbyists%20misunderstanding.doc&usg=AFQjCNFRmSBysBn97tJh2SEIJFKHVGCVOg&bvm=bv.112454388,d.ZWU
     
  11. SFlow
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    SFlow Green fingers

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    Unfortunately I do not have the luxury of having 2 water supplies. We only have borehole water as we are on a farm.

    The Caridina species I have are doing great, flourishing even. Over the last 3 months my tiger shrimps population has tripled so the water is not affecting them at all. I have started with about 10 tigers, 2 cherries and a blue tiger(I think). I haven't a single casualty with them. The CRS however are much more sensitive as I have learned the hard way:oops:.

    Is there a way to lower the TDS?
     
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  12. Joshua Tree
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    Joshua Tree Valued Contributor

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    Reverse osmosis?
     
  13. SFlow
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    SFlow Green fingers

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    I'll probably get a system at some point, but don't have the budget right now.
     
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  14. Dylan S
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    Dylan S Plant menace

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    I have lost 6 large shrimp in the last month and plants have all but stopped growing. They are not dying but hardly any new growth. Its a low tech setup but ive never seen such stunted growth. Couldnt figure it out until i read this thread and what Trev said about the temp. The tank is in the living room and since january the room temp is in the high twenties and some days its been so hot at night even that the temp reading on the tank has been 30 degrees.

    Would this explain the stunted plant growth (especially moss) and shrimp deaths?
     
  15. Warren Panayides
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    Warren Panayides Noob

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    With regards to tell my CRS in a 1ft tank get up to 32 deg and they are fine not happy but they live all day in that temp
     
  16. Warren Panayides
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    Warren Panayides Noob

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    Are you adding anything like plant ferts as some contain heavy metals like copper that kill inverts
     
  17. SFlow
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    SFlow Green fingers

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    No non at all. The one time i added 1/10th EI dose of all except iron a few turned over:eek:. I seriously think the shrimps are over sensitive. I only have about 5 left now, all half size or smaller. Hopefully they servive
     
  18. Warren Panayides
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    Warren Panayides Noob

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    Stay away from ferts and heavy metals also. Mulberry leaves can be used instead of Indian almond leaves but they need to be dried then boiled .. But they do release tanins
     
  19. Trev Pleco
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    Trev Pleco Algae destroyer

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    Mulberry and Catappa provide different foody benefits for shrimp IME. I use them both together with guava, dried cholla wood and a variety of cones. Catappa breaks down much slower and generates biofilm over a couple of weeks which the swim relish and it provides several other benefits to the water condition. Mulberry breaks down far quicker and can be eaten immediately, well certainly be the next day. I don't boil mine just give then a 24hour dip or a few seconds in the microwave, as I'm sure that boiling nullifies some of their benefits.

    quote -
    ''The main consideration when adding leaves to your tank is to ensure they are free from pollutants, pesticides, and/or harmful chemicals. Therefore leaves that have been specially prepared for aquatic use are best, as these are harvested well away from towns or city areas.

    Indian Almond Leaves / Catappa Leaves

    Benefits of using IAL / Catappa leaves in your shrimp tank:

    • Creates a natural water environment for freshwater shrimp
    • Enhances the natural color
    • Provides biofilm grazing
    • Aids the molting process, helping reduce mortality rate during this stage
    • Contains acids and tannins which have anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties, preventing bacteria and diseases
    • Stimulates breeding
    • Relieves stress
    • Mildly reduces pH
    Indian Almond Leaves / Catappa Leaves have also long been used in home remedies as well as in aquariums. They are used to treat a variety of ailments in a number of countries around the world, included scabies and leprosy in India, internal parasites in the Philippines and colic in South America. So they are widely recognized as possessing excellent medicinal properties.

    Mulberry Leaves

    Benefits of using Mulberry leaves in your shrimp tank:

    • Excellent source of natural food for shrimp
    • High in carbohydrate, fiber, vitamins and minerals
    • Helps to maintain shrimp exoskeleton
    • Aids the molting process
    Mulberry leaves are essentially a food source to be fed as part of a varied diet. They soften quickly and will be devoured within a couple days.'''
     
  20. Dirk B
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    Dirk B Aquascaper

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    Hi Guys,

    Just a few comments from the biochemist:

    SilverMoonDragon, the Cl referred to there is the Chloride ion, Cl-, which is not chlorine which is used for water sterilization. Just for the record the chlorine that we refer to in tapwater is mainly hypochloride, OCl- , which needs to be broken down to chloride ions Cl- in order for it to be safe for fishes, so we do not need to worry about this in the water. It is just a normal counterion for the Calcium and the Magnesium that I see occurs in this water.

    What I would like to know is if there is any indication on that water analysis of alkalinity or carbonate levels. That is actually very important to know as well. I see your pH is just over 7 so I do not suspect it to be very high, but nevertheless, it would be good to know this.

    Then the TDS measurement and the conductivity both indicate that this water contains a considerable amount of dissolved substances. That in itself is not bad for shrimps, Trevor these shrimps would for example not need any calcium or magnesium additions as would be necessary for our Cape water. However, the TDS is high, and one needs to be careful here.

    These deaths may be the result of an accumulation of waste products on top of this already pretty loaded water and I would advise regular water changes.

    Then I am in agreement with Trevor regarding temperature. Spikes of high temperature are not at all good for shrimps. It just means that the shrimp's metabolism is running faster than its system can cope with and this leads to deaths, it is as simple as that.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     

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